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Old 01-12-2016, 01:48 PM
 
1,900 posts, read 832,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
More people probably know the line from that song than from the film at this point.

Classic tune.
Even if so, but that line was (is) associated with asians (women) not because of the the song but that particular movie scene!
If I recall right there was not even one asian woman in the music video of 2 Live Crew.

But all that is mostly off topic anyway.......
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:26 PM
 
2,708 posts, read 911,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustermannBB View Post
Of course! Blame Rap Music! LOL
No not blaming anyone. Just saying if the person is so pissed off at a 2 minute clip out of a movie, why not mention the rap song that took that exact sample and sampled it into a 4+ minutes song along with lyrics to further the issue. BTW, that was a pretty funny song but even the most saltiest of dogs thought it was a little abrasive.

Here ya go. but you'll need to verify your age before you can view/hear it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6VTj7LhCtE
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:29 PM
 
Location: San Marcos, CA
674 posts, read 439,027 times
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[quote=415_s2k;42607643]I never said that it is true in the sense that Asian or Vietnamese women engage in this behavior, or even that a plurality of them engaged in it during the Vietnam war; not by any stretch.

Calm yourself and stop giving in to your own hyperbole. It is quite unnecessary and unbecoming.

The reality is that prostitutes in Vietnam propositioned willing American soldiers. You know that this is the truth. It sucks; it was an ugly and horrible situation. This section of the film was a depiction of that reality.[\quote]

"It's not reality, but the reality is...."

The reality is that most Asian people are not hookers, and it's a crying shame that they get portrayed as hookers or hooker-like disproportionately in media. That film is one of the most infamous examples, but it's hardly the only one.


Quote:
I'm not saying that black people "are the real bad guys here," not by any stretch. Nice reach, though. Again: stop giving into your own hyperbole.

Just saying the truth, and one that has been repeated by many Asian-Americans: that black people are frequently openly racist towards Asians in American society. You are choosing to specifically single out racism from white people towards Asians, while using an example that is frequently used by non-whites as an example and omitting this reality.
And I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.

If you weren't white, you'd know what I'm talking about. The constant deluge of, "(Minority group) are the realracists!" It's tiresome.

Here, where we're discussing a famous scene in a movie made by white people for white people, posted by a white person in a discussion about white people looking for achieve sexual satisfaction from Asian women.

Yet, "Hey, we can't forget that we should really blame black people, who otherwise aren't even part of this discussion."


[quote]Yes, the situation in Vietnam was more or less entirely France's fault, at the root; though, the US could have divested itself from the fiasco at any given time but instead chose not to for its own stupid reasons, which made a bad situation worse.[\quote]

My opinion isn't too popular among the non-Vietnamese American population, but plenty of us feel betrayed by the fact that the U.S. dropped out and then almost immediately we were overrun by the Communists. I realize that it was probably a Kobayashi Maru situation with no way to win, but it's still just plain awful.

[quote]I really doubt that you do, living in heavily-Asian California, in a society that generally thinks positively of Asians, with their statistically higher-than-average levels of education (don't you have a PhD?), lower instances of crime, general assumptions of honesty, generally-benign treatment by the authorities, etc. From the level of frustration and anger you make evident from many of your posts, I can guess that you probably go out of your way to find reasons to feel offended in your day to day life.[\quote]

In day to day life, I don't have many complaints except for that stupid fat blob pathetic slimy piece of worm-ridden filth Dean Spanos.

I did fine for myself, but geeeeeeez, it took a ton of work to get to that point. When you're treated like trash in your home country, thrown away and settled down in a new country where half of your family has trouble with the local language and the old generation consists of people who hold jobs that people on these forums hold in contempt (because being on the bottom run of society is better than being in a Communist prison), then when you see little hints here, there, and everywhere that you aren't really home, either through constant media portrayals as an alien sex slave or an emasculated sidekick, and when you're surrounded by people who just don't want to see the harm in stereotypes that aren't as aggressively negative, it can be frustrating. It's also a pain to be used, over and over, as a vehicle for insulting black people.

When the people closest to you are looked down on as basically servants, but you're told to shut up because you look like someone from a privileged class (a class that has money but still gets to be excluded from the mainstream), it isn't pleasant.

When you get the "hilarious" Asian accents, the pulled eyelids, and L-R thing, and the reductional baloney (hey, in this very thread, someone tried to reduce Vietnamese femininity to phở and shopping and then the guy who prefers Vietnamese women had his preference belittled as "for him" -- how dare a Vietnamese guy like Vietnamese women!), it's exhausting. It's death by a thousand cuts.

And you're not allowed to say anything, ever, because then you're not a good little Model Minority.

[quote]Oh, I hate South Park, too. Controversy for the sake of controversy.


I concur.

It is not okay to take lines from a movie like Roots and use them as epithets against black people, for example.

That doesn't mean that Roots should be taken out of circulation.


So, we must censor all speech and expression that could at any point make someone feel uncomfortable, regardless of the truth, merit, or validity behind it?[\quote]

Censorship, I'm not so sure. That's a bit of a sore point in the U.S.

How about just not making a point to make those kinds of statements? How about not playing offensive stereotypes for laughs? Why is that too much to ask?


Quote:
Satire is one of the most effective ways of changing opinions of people. When we decide that we must censor things to protect sensibilities (something green-lighted in popular social justice tropes these days that makes the rounds to justify similarly taking things out of context to use to mock and insult white people, ironically enough), then what do we do? We take away the ability of satire to invoke any sort of soul-searching or self-education in people. We tell an artist with something powerful to say that they can't say it, because some people may take it the wrong way.

Are you okay with censoring things for the sake of your own sensibilities?
See, this is a problem. We use the alarmist cry of "CENSORSHIP!" to galvanize support for the artistically and ethically bankrupt.

A little self-censorship isn't such a bad thing. Is it censorship that Michael Richards doesn't have a career anymore, or should he just have known better than to open such an old, sore wound that touches so many millions of people?

Is it really fair that the people who aren't hurt by these kinds of things are the ones who get to decide what is fair and what is too much?

[quote]No matter what, no matter where you are in the world, at some point or another, someone is going to say something to make you feel like crap. Someone uses a one-liner from a movie they, like you, have never seen to insult someone based on their ethnicity. That's a horrible thing to do.

Take that movie out of existence, thus removing the line. Come back to reality. There will be another insult that will come in its place.[\quote]

If it were just me, then I'd just avoid the film.

It's not, though, and I don't buy your argument for a minute. Why give up on removing racist statements just because we assume there will be more to take their place?

I mean, we have made progress in a lot of these areas over the last 100 years. Let's go for more.

People still use dogwhistle racism all the time, but at least it's just some people. It's no longer everyone. We decided, as a society, that it was okay to treat black people as human beings with the same thoughts and feelings everyone else has. Well, almost. There are some holdouts, and I get the picture that a lot of people aren't fully convinced to leave racism in the wastebin of history, but we're at least going in the right direction.

That's what I want. I want my family, my kid, my sisters, to be viewed without the extra layer of condescension, skepticism, fear, and contempt that they currently face. I'm not advocating for some government body to step in and make rules about what words can be in movies and what words can't, but I am advocating for a society in which people stop viewing that kind of thing as civilized. and a society in which people don't feel so comfortable repeating the vilest of stereotypes over and over again.


[quote]It's not up to white people to decide what gender norms are or aren't acceptable in other places in the world, of course.

It is acceptable to stop telling people who are acting like (bigoted, embittered) children, to stop acting like children when it does absolutely nothing positive for the discussion whatsoever. That is acceptable across all races and cultures. I would tell a white person who said the same things that you said about the portrayal of white people in media the exact same way. [\quote]

And AGAIN, what you're saying is NOT OKAY.

People aren't childish just because they (horror of horrors!) actually get freaking mad at some of the filth we get subjected to.

This isn't a discussion about white feminism. The power balance issues there are different (not that you would know), though there are elements of toxic masculinity in those discussions, as well.

You betray the fact that you aren't really close to the issues involved because you can so easily brush everything aside.

As a white person, you don't deal with all of that. It's all a joke to you.

[quote]
Stereotypes of Asian women being easy, being materialistic, etc are quite disgusting and hurt me personally, as these are stereotypes which affect my wife and many of my friends.[\quote]

Yet if an Asian person complains about them, it's childish. No, we have to wait for our white heroes to ride in on their horses and save us from...

Wait.

Quote:
Stereotypes about Asian men being "feminine" are also disgusting and hurt me personally; these belittle and insult very dear friends and family of mine, and I won't stand by and let them go unchecked. See my responses earlier in this thread re: Western misconceptions about Asian cultural norms, which I have rallied against here on these forums, many times. But most of the stereotypes you hear in the US these days revolve around, again, being better at most of the things that white people traditionally used as markers of success. You feel bad that people think that you make more money and are better educated than average, and instead want to be stereotyped as big-screen tough guys who blow stuff up and drive Mustangs or something?
Being married to an Asian woman doesn't mean you feel the same pain at some of these cultural jabs.

It's commendable that you make an effort, but remember that it hurts other people more deeply, and sometimes anger, particularly anger that only really manifests itself as comments on the internet, is an appropriate response.

After all, expressing anger at the cultural meme that holds Asian women as sexual objects for white men isn't just directionless frustration. It draws attention to something real, something problematic, something that takes our culture's disgusting misogyny to new lows while targeting a particularly vulnerable group, attempting to take one of our cultural strengths (strong family values!) and subvert it -- have you ever been the object of someone's disgusting fetish?

The positive stereotype thing is misleading, too. Traditionally, it's been part of the Model Minority myth, where basically Asian people are given some slight acceptance at the expense of other minority groups, until, suddenly they aren't anymore (see what happened to Muslims in the U.S., who lost their model minority status almost overnight). It's not real acceptance, since it can be withdrawn at any time, and it never comes with admission into mainstream society. We're tolerable on the fringes.

Not only that, the stereotypes are only positive when they are convenient. If I had a dollar for every time I'd heard a variation of, "Well, white people have better test scores than black people, so white people are smarter, but Asian people have better test scores than white people, so they're just book smart and uncreative robots who are good at taking tests," I'd be rich. It's a backhanded compliment that's still puts us in second place at best.

It also gets used as part of the "Asians are monolithic and interchangeable" myth whenever social policy comes up. Yeah, the U.S. has some rich immigrants from Korea, China, and Japan. Great! They help make the country a better place. They score well on the SAT and get admitted to Caltech. No complaints.

That can lead to almost paradoxical thinking about groups of mostly poor refugee communities who have to fight for everything but who still get looked at as having been silver spoonfed.

Yeah, I have a PhD. I'm very lucky to be one of the younger kids in my family. If I'd been born ten years earlier, I'd probably be working in the nail salon with my sister. Or I could have been killed in the war or on the boat to America.

The positive stereotypes are probably a lot better than negative stereotypes, but they still aren't good. They still diminish accomplishments and dehumanize people.


Look, if you get nothing else out of this, just note that it's probably not a good idea to characterize every complaint as childish or unfair or whatever, particularly when it's someone complaining about something you'll never experience.
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:28 PM
 
2,708 posts, read 911,560 times
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That scene in the movie as mentioned is an example of what happens in reality over there. Thailand, Philippines, it's all going on over in those places. I've been there, seen it. One my very first trips to the Philippines, guys brought me to see a peso show. if there's money, people are willing to do whatever to get that money. I don't indulge in that type of activities, but am aware of what's happening. Funny thing is, everyone blames the American Soldiers for such things. Or military guys in general. But here's something you can put in your bowl and smoke. I went to the Philippines to live after the American bases all closed down. Guess what? Same stuff was going on but instead of it being with girls and American servicemen, it was with crusty old Filipino men who have money and barely legal Filipina chicks. So get off that trip that it's just bad foreigners and/or military guys with money and no moral compass. It's anyone with money who wants to do that type of thing.
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,365,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustermannBB View Post
Even if so, but that line was (is) associated with asians (women) not because of the the song but that particular movie scene!
If I recall right there was not even one asian woman in the music video of 2 Live Crew.

But all that is mostly off topic anyway.......
Oh, I was thinking of the Sir Mix A Lot song. Forgot about the 2 Live Crew tune.

Just rewatched the video. No asian women in it.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:45 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,188,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Oh, I was thinking of the Sir Mix A Lot song. Forgot about the 2 Live Crew tune.

Just rewatched the video. No asian women in it.
Not to get off topic, but what amazes me how half Asians and half white like that actress can still look almost 100% Asian. Literally every half-Asian I know looks more way more Asian than white.
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,376 posts, read 1,817,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Not to get off topic, but what amazes me how half Asians and half white like that actress can still look almost 100% Asian. Literally every half-Asian I know looks more way more Asian than white.
Dominant genes!
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:33 PM
 
2,708 posts, read 911,560 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Oh, I was thinking of the Sir Mix A Lot song. Forgot about the 2 Live Crew tune.

Just rewatched the video. No asian women in it.
Yeah, except for that chick saying "me So Horny, I love you long time" and that "sucky" part throughout the song with a thick Asian accent. I don't know, but it looks like one of those hot chicks dancing could be half Asian.
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:41 PM
 
2,708 posts, read 911,560 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Not to get off topic, but what amazes me how half Asians and half white like that actress can still look almost 100% Asian. Literally every half-Asian I know looks more way more Asian than white.
Whites and Asians don't have too much difference besides some facial features as in shape of eyes and in some cases the nose. Other than that there isn't much other differences in physical appearance. I never really got the "yellow" color claim. I've dated many Asian women from various countries and none of them looked "yellow" to me. But then again, the only time I really noticed that my girl and I looked different and from different races was in pictures only. When I'm with her, it's like we are exactly the same. I see a picture of us together and that's when I'm like "Wow, we don't look the same". Also from what I've seen in regards to whites and Asians having kids, many of my friends have had children with Asian women and it's very interesting that when the babies are very young up until around 2 or 3 years old, they look 100% Asian. But when they start to grow past those years, they start to take on the characteristics of white and Asian mix.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,365,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
Yeah, except for that chick saying "me So Horny, I love you long time" and that "sucky" part throughout the song with a thick Asian accent. I don't know, but it looks like one of those hot chicks dancing could be half Asian.
She looked more Latina to me, though plenty of hapas have an ethnically-ambiguous look and many Latin Americans are a mix of European and Native American peoples, who migrated to the Americas from Asia via an ice bridge eons ago.

Honestly, i feel like the way the line is used in the song, with zero context, if you didn't know it was supposed to be an Asian woman you wouldn't necessarily know. When I was a kid and heard it, I had no idea because i'd never seen the movie, and didn't hear it used against an Asian girl until some black kids started using it in middle school and didn't put it together till i saw Full Metal Jacket.
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