U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2016, 09:52 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
It's completely independent, the only reason why it has so many obstacles joining those clubs is China being a c**t.
Like it or not, as someone who actually support Taiwan independence, your country won't be independent, not in your life time (I know you are in your 20s) if ever. I am not saying this based on emotion but based on fact and how things are going. Nothing, economic, political or anything else is going the way toward more likelihood but quite the contrary.

And yes, sometimes c**ts matter. Just look at the US/UK in history.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2016, 11:05 AM
 
1,424 posts, read 736,898 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Being an independent country and joining international organisations are two different and unrelated things. A country can be completely independent and not being able to join, or simply choose not to join, some random club for various reasons.

UN membership is not a measurement of determining statehood. If it is then Switzerland was never a country until 2002. Neither is the Olympics. Puerto Rico is in the race under its own name, but it is by no means an independent country.
No need to play with semantics. We all know Taiwan is UNABLE TO join the UN, not unwilling to.
The constitution of ROC also says mainland China is a part of ROC (in theory).

Right, there is no clear definition of what an independent country is, and sometimes things are in between.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2016, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,132,830 times
Reputation: 4566
^I never said Taiwan chose not to join, I said there are those who are unable to join and those who choose not to, Taiwan is clearly the former and Switzerland (before 2002) is clearly the latter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2016, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
451 posts, read 1,081,083 times
Reputation: 357
I see Taiwan, at least in the near future, keeping the status quo (even with the probable electing of Tsai Ing-Wen as the next President of Taiwan). It runs as an independent country in many ways- it elects its own leaders, has its own currency, has its own military, has its own passport, own Olympic team (though I hate the name "Chinese Taipei" and that can be a whole another topic), etc. Any prediction about Taiwan future in the long run is very much speculation. Thus, I only see things in the immediate future. I do believe deep down (if it were not for China being such a barrier) most people would agree to have Taiwan officially declare independence. And if it were not for China, I believe most countries in the world would recognize Taiwan as an independent country and established diplomatic relations. I am Taiwanese-American. I, personally, am a supporter of Taiwan independence (but with peaceful co-existence and ties with China- if that is even possible should Taiwan declare independence), but also recognize the reality. I also do not see China invading or taking Taiwan by force in the near future. China really has not gain much and will have a lot more adverse consequences in doing so.

Last edited by twnxn; 01-12-2016 at 11:57 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 08:47 PM
 
919 posts, read 604,178 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Being an independent country and joining international organisations are two different and unrelated things. A country can be completely independent and not being able to join, or simply choose not to join, some random club for various reasons.

UN membership is not a measurement of determining statehood. If it is then Switzerland was never a country until 2002. Neither is the Olympics. Puerto Rico is in the race under its own name, but it is by no means an independent country.
+1

A good argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 09:13 PM
 
919 posts, read 604,178 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
No need to play with semantics. We all know Taiwan is UNABLE TO join the UN, not unwilling to.
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758



I thought ROC left the UN of its own will, but I was wrong.

It was (representatives of) Chiang Kai-shek who was expelled from it, not ROC as a whole.

So

1: ROC was a member of the UN and represents China

then

2: PRC represents China and representatives of Chiang Kai-shek was expelled

Where does ROC is then? ROC is still in the UN, as it was not expelled?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 09:58 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,904 posts, read 70,720,442 times
Reputation: 76870
Quote:
Originally Posted by John7777 View Post
I suppose I could look it up, but didn't the US vote to unseat Taiwan from the UN and seat the PRC? Something like that.
The again, we have a treaty obligation to defend Taiwan. I believe.
Yes; the PRC replaced Taiwan at the UN. Carter abrogated the US defense treaty with Taiwan, but at some point later, a different President re-negotiated a defense treaty with them, I was told. Somehow, I missed that event.


The PRC claims Taiwan, but Taiwan has always claimed mainland China as part of the ROC.


So they're at a stand-off. And it's the US support that's resulted in Taiwan maintaining its independence so far.


So what is the OP's question? Is the OP asking if the US should pull out of the deal, or maintain the status quo?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:52 PM
 
277 posts, read 205,645 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
There is no such thing as benevolent imperialism. All that the US did is out of nothing but egoism. Nothing else and it is unrealistic to expect otherwise.

The US only acts like a democracy when in fact the power is in the hands on the big corporations and lobby groups, not the government or the people. The rest of the world doesn't need to be liberated.
.
...and which country isn't on this Earth? Even in Australia, you have the miners, big 4 banks, media moguls, the Jewish groups and Unions who run the country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 02:42 AM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 541,141 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Being an independent country and joining international organisations are two different and unrelated things. A country can be completely independent and not being able to join, or simply choose not to join, some random club for various reasons.

UN membership is not a measurement of determining statehood. If it is then Switzerland was never a country until 2002. Neither is the Olympics. Puerto Rico is in the race under its own name, but it is by no means an independent country.
This is a very good point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 03:01 AM
 
4,706 posts, read 3,622,521 times
Reputation: 7399
Who cares. China will be a c*&t because it can. Deal with it.

The ROC on Taiwan is a diplomatic nobody, and soon, it will be an economic nobody. Taiwan is a name for an island and it's not a political entity. The issue is a non-starter, and if Tsai declares de jour independence (the ROT), the issue will take roughly two days, or at most a week to solve and we all move on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top