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Old 01-28-2016, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,349,751 times
Reputation: 11309

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Bash the US? I am American. But that doesn't make me "Go USA #1" all day.
Oh, being American has nothing to do with it... *that's* a straw man if there ever was one. Some of the most anti-American people I've ever met are, embarrassingly enough, Americans. Usually, Americans who have never lived, spent significant time, or understand what life is really like abroad... A reaction to "the ugly American" that is just as ugly.

Quote:
It is as clear as day here. The US is using this straw man excuse of freedom of navigation, and the fear of those puny SE asian countries like the filipines and vietnam to try to get into the SCS and block China's effort to protect its own vital sea lane. Yes, the SCS is not an international sea lane, it's a vital CHINESE sea lane, and the US wants unimpeded access to it so that it can choke China whenever it wants. The vietnamese and the filipinos are just pawns for the US to use against China.
Those nations are more or less begging the US to come in to give some semblance of protection to their territorial waters. Interestingly, as the US and other nations' businesses leave China for places with better IP protection, more transparent governments, and a friendlier climate for international business - like, oh, Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines - freedom of navigation over international shipping lanes becomes a much bigger issue.

Oil is still the biggest issue at play here, but it is still worthy of note.
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:23 AM
 
4,678 posts, read 3,609,147 times
Reputation: 7380
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Oh, being American has nothing to do with it... *that's* a straw man if there ever was one. Some of the most anti-American people I've ever met are, embarrassingly enough, Americans. Usually, Americans who have never lived, spent significant time, or understand what life is really like abroad... A reaction to "the ugly American" that is just as ugly.


Those nations are more or less begging the US to come in to give some semblance of protection to their territorial waters. Interestingly, as the US and other nations' businesses leave China for places with better IP protection, more transparent governments, and a friendlier climate for international business - like, oh, Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines - freedom of navigation over international shipping lanes becomes a much bigger issue.

Oil is still the biggest issue at play here, but it is still worthy of note.
LOL???Vietnam is a transparent investment environment????!!!! You do know that it's a mini-China that's about 30 years behind. It has all the communist bs that China is growing out of. Apparently for someone who lives in China, you don't know much. The filipines is an economic basket case since...well, forever. The Chinese don't need FDI like they used to because they are trying to turn their growth toward consumption. China doesn't need capacity at this point. The point is to turn Chinese consumption into the engine of growth for China.

Once again, check how much land reclamation both the viets and the filipinos have done BEFORE the Chinese started getting serious. Of course, now these useless shrimps are "begging" the US to come to help them because they are so incompetent. And of course the US loves to be "begged", kinda like a big guy who likes getting his big ego stroked by a bunch of scrawny girls. But we wont talk about the whole wasteful and pointlessness of these US flyovers. China will have those shiny new islands, and the Chinese are just waiting for a good excuse to militarize these islands (to protect against US military flyovers, of course). The US is stupid to be played like this.

The SCS is China's backyard and it's a vital Chinese sea lane. Too bad for the viets and the filipinos. Face it and go on with life.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:34 AM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,161,709 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by John7777 View Post
It's just bad precedent. Go out in the middle of international waters somewhere, build and island, and claim it's part of your country. I don't think so.


No wait - also "continue your war on the natural environment by concreting all available coral reefs in the area."
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:15 AM
 
1,089 posts, read 477,070 times
Reputation: 739
No one in the region wants a war and Freedom Of Navigation is not a problem in the region. China built some islands that can be used as military bases, however it appears China does not want to affect navigations.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:49 AM
 
768 posts, read 905,937 times
Reputation: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
is just chest-thumping hubris. The SCS is a Chinese lake in the sense that most of the 5 trillion trade that goes through it is BOUND for CHINA!!!! So, the US is defending the freedom for navigation for China-bound trade FROM China itself???????What a freaking joke.



China and the South China Sea dispute: The $5 trillion lie – Asia Times
I have a feeling this artificial land building that China is rapidly progressing with is for military purpose only. Has nothing to do with trade routes, etc. China has been expanding it's military capacity to directly challenge the USA in the Western Pacific. China has every intention of loading up those new islands with jet fighters to extend their attack range. They are finding out it's not easy to land planes on carriers, lots of training and resources needed, etc. They only have one operational with, I believe, two under construction. Saving of face is BIG in Chinese culture, so is ancestor worship. I think China wants to avenge it's ancestors, it's loss of face, for it's 20th Century defeats and setbacks. I think, if they believe they could, they will take Taiwan by force, try and force the US carrier fleets, out of the area completely. Perhaps try and push them back all the way to Hawaii. Of course, this is all my opinion, based on what China has been building; ultra fast anti-ship missiles, better silent diesel subs, anti-satellite weapons, etc. Again, just my humble opinion- based on news I've read over the past 18 months, or so, just putting the pieces together in my mind.

Last edited by Texabama; 01-30-2016 at 04:00 AM..
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:14 PM
 
3,339 posts, read 2,074,964 times
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if China is trying to use the SCS for defense, you just built in the wrong place. thats not the choke points military planners would like to control. just look at the map of East Asia and SE Asia and you know where are they and America are already there.

whats the use of those airfields and docks if the US Navy or even Indian Navy control the Straits of Malacca? where will your oil come from? unless the purpose is to attack the Philippines or Vietnam, yes the purpose is justifiable but only a fool will got to war for smaller and weaker neighbors. what will you gain from it? you dont gain prestige or respect for punching small boys. you do the opposite.

the SCS is for fishermen for all the states that border it and you dont even want them to fish anymore
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:40 PM
 
4,678 posts, read 3,609,147 times
Reputation: 7380
Why are all of you so angry at China for? The US Navy just sailed a destroyer within 12 miles of Paracel Island, which is actually closer to China and under Chinese control since the 1070's. Talk about the US trampling on Chinese sovereignty....and not a peek from the Chinese navy! No Chinese ship in sight to watch, let alone stop the US destroyer! Do you think this would happen anywhere near the US? It's almost as if the Chinese are afraid or something...even in protecting their island that is NOT in dispute (not part of the SCS). It's almost embarrassing how weak China is in the face of the US, and we're worrying about the Chinese? Give me a break.

The Chinese leadership is just building up the Chinese navy for show and display, and to make their people feel like the leadership is making China strong. In reality, they are actually so afraid of taking any initiative that they are literally frozen and unable to take any action. We don't have much to worry about China because the Chinese leaders have their hands full just to rule China. Pathetic country and you all are so worried about a "bully". They are scared of their own people.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:26 PM
 
542 posts, read 489,251 times
Reputation: 453
China has sailed numerous times into other countries controlled waters, don't fool yourself.

This is just another example of jockeying for position by all parties involved. In fact, I would venture a guess that anything being reported is representative of just a sliver of the truth and reasoning. Don't bite the bait that's on a hook would be my advice.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:00 AM
 
149 posts, read 137,036 times
Reputation: 107
USS Curtis Wilbur "We conducted a freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea earlier tonight," Pentagon spokesman Jeff Davis.

Davis said the guided missile destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur made the "innocent passage" off Zhong Jian Island in the Paracel island chain, which is claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam.


I don't understand how the USA insults China like this ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Why are all of you so angry at China for? The US Navy just sailed a destroyer within 12 miles of Paracel Island, which is actually closer to China and under Chinese control since the 1070's. Talk about the US trampling on Chinese sovereignty..
We got rid of Mc Arthur & China is one of our allies

From Tokyo MacArthur continued to press for a larger war with China and gave little heed to cautionary language directed at him from Washington. He saw himself almost as a sovereign power and sabotaged diplomatic efforts to end hostilities. He told invited friendly journalists that a failure to defeat communism in Asia would make World War III and the loss of Europe to Stalin inevitable. In a public statement he warned China to lay down its arms or face “a decision by the United Nations to depart from its tolerant efforts to contain the war…[that] would doom Red China to the risk of imminent military collapse.” Courting dismissal while inviting political resurgence at home, MacArthur exhorted Republican leaders to promote war with China under the banner, “There is no substitute for victory.”
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:27 AM
 
4,678 posts, read 3,609,147 times
Reputation: 7380
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenehaven View Post
USS Curtis Wilbur "We conducted a freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea earlier tonight," Pentagon spokesman Jeff Davis.

Davis said the guided missile destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur made the "innocent passage" off Zhong Jian Island in the Paracel island chain, which is claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam.


I don't understand how the USA insults China like this ...



We got rid of Mc Arthur & China is one of our allies

From Tokyo MacArthur continued to press for a larger war with China and gave little heed to cautionary language directed at him from Washington. He saw himself almost as a sovereign power and sabotaged diplomatic efforts to end hostilities. He told invited friendly journalists that a failure to defeat communism in Asia would make World War III and the loss of Europe to Stalin inevitable. In a public statement he warned China to lay down its arms or face “a decision by the United Nations to depart from its tolerant efforts to contain the war…[that] would doom Red China to the risk of imminent military collapse.” Courting dismissal while inviting political resurgence at home, MacArthur exhorted Republican leaders to promote war with China under the banner, “There is no substitute for victory.”
The US will continue to insult China like nobody's business because the Chinese leaders are weak. Beijing has money but it has no gut to step up and defend China's interests when the crap hits the fan. This latest incident just demonstrates how much of a paper tiger China really is. And if you look closer, you'd see that the Chinese may claim the whole SCS, but they have not forcibly ejected anyone from the islands that they claim are theirs. The vietnamese occupy the most of those SCS islands by far, but the Chinese have not touched them at all. In fact the Chinese don't even dare touch the filipino contingent on Huang Yen island. This is in the context of the Chinese South Sea Fleet having more firepower and total tonnage than all of the ASEAN navies put together and they still act like a bunch of cowards. Like I said before, I don't understand why all of you folks are worrying about the Chinese. They may talk loud, but it's all bluster. I bet even if the japanese sail pass those islands, the PLA wont dare do anything. It's all for show to fool the Chinese people into thinking that the current leadership is making China "strong", when , in fact, the US insults China more than it insults anybody in the world.

Think about it. China has nukes and is supposedly a major power, yet the US literally tramples on Chinese sovereignty right on China's coastal doorstep. The Paracel is so close to China's Hainan island. The US would never do this to Russia, but it can do this to the Chinese because the Chinese leaders don't have the b%lls like Putin. Once those islands are fully developed, what can China do with it? Stationing planes and ships there, but when the military does not even dare touch a hair on the filipinos, isn't it just a waste of Chinese people's money? China has not extended its control over anything. The Japanese will come, and even the Australians will sail pass these islands just for fun. I wouldn't worry about the Chinese.
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