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Old 02-18-2016, 01:35 PM
 
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Yeah, so flying nuclear capable bombers through the SCS and sailing aegis armed destroyers through the SCS, even within 12 miles of Chinese islands, are NOT militarizing the area, but installing defensive Chinese surface-to-air HQ-9 missiles IS......???!!! LOL!
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:02 PM
 
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You're f-ing joking, right?



I would bomb the living crap out of China's junk on these islands. They have zero right of claim, especially in the Spratly Island group.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Dat View Post
You're f-ing joking, right?



I would bomb the living crap out of China's junk on these islands. They have zero right of claim, especially in the Spratly Island group.
Tough talk from an arm chair general. Who do you think you are? You couldn't "bomb" anything even if your grandma's welfare check was depended on it.

The Paracel has been under Chinese control for the past 20 odd years. The Chinese have every right to place defensive missiles on them if the US wants to sail through or fly by with military assets. In fact, the Chinese have every right to build islands, defend them and use the air strips. Go cry in a corner, little man.

If you want the Chinese to not militarize the whole region, then don't send US military assets through it. China hasn't threatened any shipping or freedom of passage anywhere. In fact, more than 85% of the shipping cargo going through the SCS is destined for China itself, so China isn't going to "threaten" Chinese shipping, is it, genius? All this BS about American defending FON is nothing but crap excuse for the US to maintain its ability to choke off China's sea route through the SCS in case of war. It's not about FON and everything about the US ability to threaten Chinese shipping right up to China's backdoor, which will not be tolerated by China anymore. Grow a brain, stop drinking the US propaganda kool-aid and think for once, genius.

Of course, those viets and filipino flipflop warriors want the US to do just that because they are too weak to face China themselves. But of coure they are not too stupid, as the most recent US-Asean summit produced a joint statement that didn't even dare name China by name as the "culprit" for militarization of the SCS.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:28 PM
 
542 posts, read 495,366 times
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Spratly Island group, the Paracel's should probably be left for a global body to determine rights. I specifically spoke about the Spratly's.

If you want to get personal, I'm willing to accommodate you in every way. Just let me know.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:35 PM
 
542 posts, read 495,366 times
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And for the record, I'm hardly a kool aid drinker. Most of my thoughts are driven by the fact that the US government is screwed up and has been for the past 50 + years.

I'm not a fan to say the least.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:45 PM
 
3,349 posts, read 2,112,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
excuse for the US to maintain its ability to choke off China's sea route through the SCS in case of war. It's not about FON and everything about the US ability to threaten Chinese shipping right up to China's backdoor,
the choke point is not the SCS..they are further south like the Malacca Strait, which they have basing arrangement with Singapore, and the straits between the Indonesian Islands..futher northeast, are the straits between Taiwan and Japan which their naval forces based in Okinawa and Guam can block..


controlling the SCS doesn't give china military advantage..you are only depriving poor fishermen from the Philippines and Vietnam their source of livelihood.
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:40 PM
 
4,342 posts, read 2,298,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Tough talk from an arm chair general. Who do you think you are? You couldn't "bomb" anything even if your grandma's welfare check was depended on it.

The Paracel has been under Chinese control for the past 20 odd years. The Chinese have every right to place defensive missiles on them if the US wants to sail through or fly by with military assets. In fact, the Chinese have every right to build islands, defend them and use the air strips. Go cry in a corner, little man.

If you want the Chinese to not militarize the whole region, then don't send US military assets through it. China hasn't threatened any shipping or freedom of passage anywhere. In fact, more than 85% of the shipping cargo going through the SCS is destined for China itself, so China isn't going to "threaten" Chinese shipping, is it, genius? All this BS about American defending FON is nothing but crap excuse for the US to maintain its ability to choke off China's sea route through the SCS in case of war. It's not about FON and everything about the US ability to threaten Chinese shipping right up to China's backdoor, which will not be tolerated by China anymore. Grow a brain, stop drinking the US propaganda kool-aid and think for once, genius.

Of course, those viets and filipino flipflop warriors want the US to do just that because they are too weak to face China themselves. But of coure they are not too stupid, as the most recent US-Asean summit produced a joint statement that didn't even dare name China by name as the "culprit" for militarization of the SCS.
Not really Dr Jones,

The islands have always been unoccupied except by various countries fishing vessels. Chinese settlements came along with their policy change to try to enforce their territorial claims. The Chinese claims are based on the islands being shown on old Chinese nautical maps (at a time when mainland China was not even united under a single central authority).

US sailors and soldiers died wresting the whole of the SCS area from Japanese control at a time when they also occupied coastal Mainland China. We don't claim the islands, only free passage through them. That is not going to change.

The US will keep sailing our naval vessels through there and the Chinese won't do jack s@#$ about it.

YES your right and of course China threatened to wreck any ASEAN economies IF they issued any statement condemning the actions of China in the SCS. Unfortunately for your lovely homeland the Government is using their huge economic power to bully weaker neighbors and thanks to that China is now more unpopular than the Japanese in Asia

Sorry you really should follow your own advice and use some non-Chinese sources for your information.
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Old 02-18-2016, 11:25 PM
 
1,380 posts, read 1,825,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Not really Dr Jones,

The islands have always been unoccupied except by various countries fishing vessels. Chinese settlements came along with their policy change to try to enforce their territorial claims. The Chinese claims are based on the islands being shown on old Chinese nautical maps (at a time when mainland China was not even united under a single central authority).

US sailors and soldiers died wresting the whole of the SCS area from Japanese control at a time when they also occupied coastal Mainland China. We don't claim the islands, only free passage through them. That is not going to change.

The US will keep sailing our naval vessels through there and the Chinese won't do jack s@#$ about it.

YES your right and of course China threatened to wreck any ASEAN economies IF they issued any statement condemning the actions of China in the SCS. Unfortunately for your lovely homeland the Government is using their huge economic power to bully weaker neighbors and thanks to that China is now more unpopular than the Japanese in Asia

Sorry you really should follow your own advice and use some non-Chinese sources for your information.
The US freedom of navigation has done nothing to deter China from militarizing that region. The FONOP is actually what led to the placement of the anti air missiles in Woody Island. Obama right now doesn't have the political capital to convince Congress to do anything to China so the Chinese don't have to worry about anything yet. Obama is far more concerned with passing the TPP (which is becoming more difficult) and dealing with Scalia's replacement. The presidential candidates who are running all have policies (namely their opposition to the TPP) that would offend certain Asian countries so that would also prevent a lot of Asian countries from forming an anti-China pact. South Korea for example wants nothing to do with the South China Sea while India is so offended by America's F-16 sale to Pakistan that it refused to patrol the South China Sea.
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Old 02-19-2016, 02:53 AM
 
4,732 posts, read 3,656,012 times
Reputation: 7412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Dat View Post
And for the record, I'm hardly a kool aid drinker. Most of my thoughts are driven by the fact that the US government is screwed up and has been for the past 50 + years.

I'm not a fan to say the least.
Yeah, right. Those missiles are on Paracel, not on any of the little islands belonging to the Spratlys. And, the Chinese did it because the US actually sailed a fully armed aegis destroyer (do you even know what that is, tough guy?) right to 12 miles of one of those islands. Talk about provocation! Now do you understand why the missiles are there?

The Chinese are responding to American actions, and so long as the US keeps provoking, China will step by step fully arm all of its islands, from the Paracel all the way into the Spratlys. The US is acting like you..."oh, let's show them how tough we are" and next thing you know, Chinese missiles (or Chinese junk, as you call them) are everywhere in the SCS. Good job! Use your head. Sailing US military assets through the SCS to provoke the Chinese is not the solution.
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Old 02-19-2016, 03:04 AM
 
4,732 posts, read 3,656,012 times
Reputation: 7412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Not really Dr Jones,

The islands have always been unoccupied except by various countries fishing vessels. Chinese settlements came along with their policy change to try to enforce their territorial claims. The Chinese claims are based on the islands being shown on old Chinese nautical maps (at a time when mainland China was not even united under a single central authority).

US sailors and soldiers died wresting the whole of the SCS area from Japanese control at a time when they also occupied coastal Mainland China. We don't claim the islands, only free passage through them. That is not going to change.

The US will keep sailing our naval vessels through there and the Chinese won't do jack s@#$ about it.

YES your right and of course China threatened to wreck any ASEAN economies IF they issued any statement condemning the actions of China in the SCS. Unfortunately for your lovely homeland the Government is using their huge economic power to bully weaker neighbors and thanks to that China is now more unpopular than the Japanese in Asia

Sorry you really should follow your own advice and use some non-Chinese sources for your information.
Sure the US can sail right through. China wont impede no-harm free sailing. But don't whine about the Chinese military assets that are there to defend Chinese assets from your "sail through." I think the Chinese should have station offensive cruise missiles instead of the defensive HQ-9s there. If the US sail another aegis destroyer through, I bet the cruise missiles will be added along with fighter jets on the new islands with those awesome airstrips.

And also, the US actually recognized Chinese sovereignty over the whole of the SCS after the Second War. It was because at that time, China was the ROC that was a US ally. Now that China is not an ally, US position has changed, like a camelion.
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