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Old 04-30-2016, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Paramus, NJ
500 posts, read 1,256,412 times
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Sorry, belated response here.

The bottom line is that Taiwan deserves to have a choice. Not China's. Because majority in Taiwan don't really care about China, except for trade relations. They just want to live in peace and be recognized by the world.

The Chinese are using words and the missiles as a fear mongering tool. Meh. The Taiwanese know what is at stake in terms of who will help them. Time will only tell..
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:47 PM
 
4,695 posts, read 3,619,623 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Memory View Post
Sorry, belated response here.

The bottom line is that Taiwan deserves to have a choice. Not China's. Because majority in Taiwan don't really care about China, except for trade relations. They just want to live in peace and be recognized by the world.

The Chinese are using words and the missiles as a fear mongering tool. Meh. The Taiwanese know what is at stake in terms of who will help them. Time will only tell..
Well, the Confederate States of America also made a choice in 1861 but they were beaten back into the union. The circumstance was a little different granted, but you can't say the Americans have the right to national sovereignty but the Chinese don't.
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Old 04-30-2016, 11:49 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 736,377 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Memory View Post
Sorry, belated response here.

The bottom line is that Taiwan deserves to have a choice. Not China's. Because majority in Taiwan don't really care about China, except for trade relations. They just want to live in peace and be recognized by the world.

The Chinese are using words and the missiles as a fear mongering tool. Meh. The Taiwanese know what is at stake in terms of who will help them. Time will only tell..
Ideology is transient and can be changed. For example, IF Taiwan reunifies with China, I bet in a few decades they will think they are Chinese. After all, they do speak Chinese.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:06 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,129,771 times
Reputation: 4566
Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
Ideology is transient and can be changed. For example, IF Taiwan reunifies with China, I bet in a few decades they will think they are Chinese. After all, they do speak Chinese.
LMAO.

Have you been living under a rock? Hong Kong returned to China 20 years ago, see how well that has worked out lol.

And I suggest you to stop using the retarded 'we all speak Chinese' catchphrase, unless self-embarrassment and public humiliation is your favorite activities in leisure.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:31 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,273,499 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
LMAO.

Have you been living under a rock? Hong Kong returned to China 20 years ago, see how well that has worked out lol.

And I suggest you to stop using the retarded 'we all speak Chinese' catchphrase, unless self-embarrassment and public humiliation is your favorite activities in leisure.
Maybe not 20 years but there are many regions that didn't belong to China but later "converted" voluntarily. Don't let your young nationalistic passion cloud rational judgment.

Hong Kong is less and less privileged. In fact the recent strong resentment toward mainland precisely shows that the start to feel not that "special" anymore but rather are becoming just part of China and thetrefore all the irrational conflict. On the other land the mainland feels more and more confident because they know who will be the winner eventually. HK's status in most Chinese' mind can't even compare to say 7 or 8 years ago as a privileged region.

HK is prosperous because of China, not because it was under British rule. People should realize that. It became British property from the mid 19th century yet for a very long time it was just a mid sized city hardly compared with Shanghai. It was not until China decided to give it the special status that HK quickly rose. Only a fool would think HK enjoys its current status because it was rule by the UK. That's probably 10% of the reason.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:17 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,169 posts, read 23,691,169 times
Reputation: 11633
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Maybe not 20 years but there are many regions that didn't belong to China but later "converted" voluntarily. Don't let your young nationalistic passion cloud rational judgment.

Hong Kong is less and less privileged. In fact the recent strong resentment toward mainland precisely shows that the start to feel not that "special" anymore but rather are becoming just part of China and thetrefore all the irrational conflict. On the other land the mainland feels more and more confident because they know who will be the winner eventually. HK's status in most Chinese' mind can't even compare to say 7 or 8 years ago as a privileged region.

HK is prosperous because of China, not because it was under British rule. People should realize that. It became British property from the mid 19th century yet for a very long time it was just a mid sized city hardly compared with Shanghai. It was not until China decided to give it the special status that HK quickly rose. Only a fool would think HK enjoys its current status because it was rule by the UK. That's probably 10% of the reason.
You'd be a fool to think that Hong Kong didn't have its privileged position and higher quality of the life because of the UK--otherwise it would have been like any other southern Chinese port city. Sure, that prosperity also requires China's growth (as not every former UK possession is doing so well), but UK rule over HK played a huge role in Hong Kong's success.

Hong Kong gets its special position because it had been seen as the safest bet for foreign investment into China due to its legal structure, transparency over rule of law, and to some extent, its skilled and bilingual workforce. These were in existent, and Hong Kong had been relatively prosperous, in the modern era well before the handover. You're also right that it wasn't nearly as special relative to Shanghai back in the first half of the 20th century--but there was a really important event that led to a mass exodus of capital and skills from Shanghai at that point and much of it landed in Hong Kong which was under British rule and therefore did not succumb to the same madness that Shanghai did. So yea, maybe you should stop trying to rewrite history?
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:25 AM
 
448 posts, read 500,055 times
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Hong Kong went too different from Mainland China for more than 150 years, that was way longer that the division of Germany and Korea, the Japanese rule of Taiwan and the history of the ROC on Mainland china+Taiwan together. Also try to identify the reasons why those Chinese left Mainland China for Taiwan, HK and Macau at the end of Chinese Civil War.

If Japan kept Taiwan and Sakhalin, Japan will not have the current situation of having strain tension with Taiwan and Russia, island and fishing right dispute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
LMAO.

Have you been living under a rock? Hong Kong returned to China 20 years ago, see how well that has worked out lol.

And I suggest you to stop using the retarded 'we all speak Chinese' catchphrase, unless self-embarrassment and public humiliation is your favorite activities in leisure.
Simply because HK is the most free economy of the world. It has very open and free policies on everything. Both English and Chinese are used.

The reasons why many Westerners, Taiwanese, Japanese and South Koreans like to visit, invest or do business in HK are easy to understand. And Hong Kongers show no sign of not welcoming people from developed countries, and actually welcome them a lot.

HK was already fully industralised before the opening up of Mainland China in late 1970s. HK's factories contributed to HK's change of status from developing to developed economy before HK was returned to China.

HK people got low cost public housing and medical care from the British governors' policies. HK students could goto study in english-speaking countries with scholarships from British HK government. HK civil servants had a high pension after retirement. Some of the good policies had been ended after HK's handover.

But the British looked down on Chinese as the ruling class and let corruption flourished before the 1970s were some bad things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
You'd be a fool to think that Hong Kong didn't have its privileged position and higher quality of the life because of the UK--otherwise it would have been like any other southern Chinese port city. Sure, that prosperity also requires China's growth (as not every former UK possession is doing so well), but UK rule over HK played a huge role in Hong Kong's success.

Hong Kong gets its special position because it had been seen as the safest bet for foreign investment into China due to its legal structure, transparency over rule of law, and to some extent, its skilled and bilingual workforce. These were in existent, and Hong Kong had been relatively prosperous, in the modern era well before the handover. You're also right that it wasn't nearly as special relative to Shanghai back in the first half of the 20th century--but there was a really important event that led to a mass exodus of capital and skills from Shanghai at that point and much of it landed in Hong Kong which was under British rule and therefore did not succumb to the same madness that Shanghai did. So yea, maybe you should stop trying to rewrite history?

Last edited by lokeung); 05-01-2016 at 08:54 AM..
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:19 PM
 
277 posts, read 205,356 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokeung) View Post
Hong Kong went too different from Mainland China for more than 150 years, that was way longer that the division of Germany and Korea, the Japanese rule of Taiwan and the history of the ROC on Mainland china+Taiwan together. Also try to identify the reasons why those Chinese left Mainland China for Taiwan, HK and Macau at the end of Chinese Civil War.

If Japan kept Taiwan and Sakhalin, Japan will not have the current situation of having strain tension with Taiwan and Russia, island and fishing right dispute.


Simply because HK is the most free economy of the world. It has very open and free policies on everything. Both English and Chinese are used.

The reasons why many Westerners, Taiwanese, Japanese and South Koreans like to visit, invest or do business in HK are easy to understand. And Hong Kongers show no sign of not welcoming people from developed countries, and actually welcome them a lot.

HK was already fully industralised before the opening up of Mainland China in late 1970s. HK's factories contributed to HK's change of status from developing to developed economy before HK was returned to China.

HK people got low cost public housing and medical care from the British governors' policies. HK students could goto study in english-speaking countries with scholarships from British HK government. HK civil servants had a high pension after retirement. Some of the good policies had been ended after HK's handover.

But the British looked down on Chinese as the ruling class and let corruption flourished before the 1970s were some bad things.
Prior to maybe the late 80s, HK was a hell hole to live in anyway. To some extent, it still is. My great aunty kept telling me up to the mid 70s she still had to fetch water every morning as there was no plumbing in her building.


The British may have ruled and brought over its world class administrative systems to Hong Kong, but it never really worked/flourished until the late 60s when it started the filthy manufacturing industries. These days, you can't seriously call yourself developed nation without a service industry, manufacturing is so yesterday. Granted, it was probably the second Asian nation to develop after Japan who started the whole manufacturing process a decade before Hong Kong.


If you compare Hong Kong with Singapore since the late 1997 you can see Hong Kong has failed dismally. The general population is less educated than Singaporeans, the only ones left in Hong Kong are those who couldn't emigrate to Canada/USA/Australia/UK pre 1997. Hong Kong today is a shadow of what it was in the 80s, heavily reliant on the import/export trade hub for China and somewhat of a semi decent stock market.


Compare that with Singapore who has removed most if not all of its manufacturing industries and now a hub for South East Asians - the wealthy ones, in education and medicine. The general population is far more educated than the Hong Kongers, not to mention English speaking.


You could reasonable say the Hong Kong miracle worked due to the administrative system of the Brits coupled the hard work of the local Chinese.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:47 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 736,377 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
LMAO.

Have you been living under a rock? Hong Kong returned to China 20 years ago, see how well that has worked out lol.

And I suggest you to stop using the retarded 'we all speak Chinese' catchphrase, unless self-embarrassment and public humiliation is your favorite activities in leisure.
LMAO Hong Kong will be a part of China forever. Even those 占中 people know that.
The future of Taiwan is determined by China and the US, not by Taiwan itself. Chinese people don't buy the liberal BS either. Taiwan is probably the most Americanized place in Asia, in terms of politics. But China (and other countries) don't buy it.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:49 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 736,377 times
Reputation: 508
Hong Kong is a special case, because it was not fully unified with China. It has its own constitution de facto, the Basic Law.
But that is supposed to be lasting for 50 years only. We will see what happens.
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