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Old 04-19-2016, 06:37 PM
 
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I seem to find the most Chinese speakers outside the Chinese speaking sphere seem to be from Vietnam? It is not difficult to find a Chinese speaker in Vietnam, even if you disregard the ethnic Chinese over there.


When you think about Chinese and Vietnamese, Vietnamese just seems to be a sub set of Chinese. There are a hell of a lot of cognates or borrowed words from Chinese, both are tonal, both are SVO and Vietnamese is heavily Chinese influenced.


I'd dare say it wouldn't take much time for native Vietnamese speakers to learn and master Chinese - probably within 1-2 years orally speaking, written wise they have no advantage over any other ethic groups due to the difficult logographic based nature of written Chinese.


It is similar to the effect that Mongolians and Koreans pick up Japanese easily. When I think about it, Asian languages like European languages exist in clusters.


Mongolian + Manchurian + Korean + Japanese
Mandarin + Cantonese + Vietnamese + Tibetan
Indonesian + Malay
Thai + Lao + Cambodian
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:42 PM
 
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China has the largest population of immigrants in the world. They export people.
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:19 PM
 
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I'm not sure what question you are asking. Yes, Vietnamese is quite similar to Chinese in many ways. No, the two are not historically related (so your "grouping" of Vietnamese with Mandarin and Cantonese is not correct). Yes, people tend to find it easier to learn languages that are more similar to their native language. Yes, having a lot of vocabulary (loan words) in common is helpful.

I remember when many Vietnamese speakers had French as a second language. But that was a long time ago (1970s), and I would not be at all surprised that many speak Chinese these days instead.

Last edited by saibot; 04-19-2016 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:50 PM
 
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According to the language experts, Vietnamese is in an entirely different language family than the Chinese languages. Its in the Austroasiatic family while Mandarin and such is in the Sino-Tibetan family. So to correct your very screwed up language map.....


Thai & Lao = Tai-Kadai

Cambodian & Vietnamese = Austroasiatic

Mandarin, Tibetan & Cantonese = Sino-Tibetan

Mongolian = Mongolic

Manchurian = Tungusic

Korean = considered an isolated language with no connection to any other language

Japanese = Japonic


So according to them English and Assamese are more closely related than Mandarin and Vietnamese
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:35 PM
 
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Many minority languages in China also have tons of loanwords from Chinese and are tonal, but are still distinctive enough to be classified as non-Sino-Tibetan.
Many scholars believe Chinese had not been tonal until about 1500 years ago.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:07 AM
 
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Vietnamese and Chinese may have lots of things in common, but they do not belong to the language family. If you know Chinese characters, one can just see sample texts written in Chu Nom (Chinese characters used to write Vietnamese) compared to any Chinese text (such as the written forms of Mandarin or Cantonese), you will know that Vietnamese is very different from Chinese. A prominent feature of Vietnamese is modifiers follow the nouns, whereas in Chinese, the modifiers are often before the nouns. So one can notice that even with borrowed Chinese vocabulary, Vietnamese will sometimes look odd compared to other Chinese-influenced languages because of the reverse order: airport is 空港 (konggang in Chinese, gonghang in Korean, kuukou in Japanese using the same Chinese characters) but it becomes cảng hàng không (港航空) in Vietnamese due to its word order of having the noun 港 (port) come first.
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:43 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
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I heard they use to use Chinese writing in all the official use in Vietnam, like the Government / courts, etc until the French came and changed it.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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They are not even related.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Asia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr bolo View Post
I heard they use to use Chinese writing in all the official use in Vietnam, like the Government / courts, etc until the French came and changed it.
That's because the Chinese invaded and occupied Vietnam for nearly 1000 years until the Vietnamese were finally able to kick the Chinese out.

The Vietnamese are very aware of what the Chinese will do if the Chinese are able to, which is why the Vietnamese and all other nations of the region are always wary of Chinese power and territorial grabs.
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr bolo View Post
I heard they use to use Chinese writing in all the official use in Vietnam, like the Government / courts, etc until the French came and changed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post
That's because the Chinese invaded and occupied Vietnam for nearly 1000 years until the Vietnamese were finally able to kick the Chinese out.
No, the Vietnamese, as well as the Koreans and Japanese, used Chinese characters for their language because that's all they knew at that time, in terms of writing. These groups had NO system of writing before they were introduced to Chinese characters.

All of them eventually developed simpler scripts that were better suited to their native languages. The Japanese and Koreans created phonetic scripts and sharply reduced or eliminated the use of Chinese characters. The Vietnamese first invented many "Chinese" characters that were exclusively used in Vietnamese, and then switched to a modified Roman alphabet.

The point being that Chinese characters were used at first because speakers of these languages knew no other alternatives. When better options arose, they were taken advantage of. "Chinese occupation" had little or nothing to do with it.
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