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How come folks know so much about China? It would be nice if you share some personal experience over there.
Because some of us are Chinese.
I think it would be beneficial for people to know more about China, not just a few mega cities and Canton. For example, most of my colleagues think there are two main languages in China, Mandarin and Cantonese, which can't be further from the truth.
Jiangsu is an exceptional province in China, and pretty much leads the country in every aspect (economy, culture, education, openness etc.), and Shanghai used to be just a part of Jiangsu. Cantonese is more influential overseas before a lot of poor Cantonese immigrated, while Jiangsu had no such tradition because it had always been a more wealthier province and hence less incentive to risk everything by moving to a different country. Illegal immigrants from Jiangsu are almost unheard of, contrary to Guangdong and Fujian provinces.
Depends if you look at GDP per capita vs GDP as a whole. Guangdong obviously is larger than say Jiangsu, but yeah per capita Jiangsu and Zhenjiang are very prosperous.
I think it would be beneficial for people to know more about China, not just a few mega cities and Canton. For example, most of my colleagues think there are two main languages in China, Mandarin and Cantonese, which can't be further from the truth.
Jiangsu is an exceptional province in China, and pretty much leads the country in every aspect (economy, culture, education, openness etc.), and Shanghai used to be just a part of Jiangsu. Cantonese is more influential overseas before a lot of poor Cantonese immigrated, while Jiangsu had no such tradition because it had always been a more wealthier province and hence less incentive to risk everything by moving to a different country. Illegal immigrants from Jiangsu are almost unheard of, contrary to Guangdong and Fujian provinces.
I would have thought the Canton province has more exposure to the Brits and therefore would have emigrated more. It is close to Hong Kong - a former British leased land.
Yeah, that's kind of what Botticelli is saying. Jiangsu (and Zhejiang) had built up their own local economy so there wasn't much incentive to leave their home province and immigrate to say the U.S. Europe or Hong Kong, whereas many Guangdong people did. Lots of Fujian people as well immigrated to the U.S. and many other areas outside China.
Depends if you look at GDP per capita vs GDP as a whole. Guangdong obviously is larger than say Jiangsu, but yeah per capita Jiangsu and Zhenjiang are very prosperous.
Looking at total GDP misses the point we try to make in this thread. It is like Mexico is economically larger than Sweden. Economically speaking, Guangdong still have quite a few poor and under developed areas while Jiangsu is wealthier overall.
And not just per capita GDP wise. Jiangsu is more advanced and influential than Guangdong Province, in terms of education, cultural offering, history. The number of good universities in Guangdong can't compare with Jiangsu by a long shot. There are far more famous literary and cultural figures from Jiangsu than from Guangdong. Nanjian and Suzhou are China's most important cities in terms of history and cultural richness. Yangzhou was also extremely famous and vibrant even 1000 years ago, represented in many of the ancient poems. Guangdong on the other hand, has very little in that respect.
In terms of politics, two of China's previous presidents. Hu jintao and Jiang Zeming are from Jiangsu. China's first premier Zhou En Lai was from Jiangsu as well. I don't think Guangdong produced any.
Shenzhen is second largest city (in GDP) in Guangdong, largely because it was made an economic special zone receiving many preferential policies other cities don't. On the other hand, Suzhou had always been the most important economic centres in China. Jiangsu would be even more powerful if Shanghai and later quite a few nearby regions, were not carved out of it and became its own municipality.
Guangdong may be well known overseas, but let it be today or in the past, Jiangsu is undoubtedly richer and more powerful.
I would have thought the Canton province has more exposure to the Brits and therefore would have emigrated more. It is close to Hong Kong - a former British leased land.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeinChina
Yeah, that's kind of what Botticelli is saying. Jiangsu (and Zhejiang) had built up their own local economy so there wasn't much incentive to leave their home province and immigrate to say the U.S. Europe or Hong Kong, whereas many Guangdong people did. Lots of Fujian people as well immigrated to the U.S. and many other areas outside China.
You see more Cantonese speaking Chinese overseas today precisely because Guangdong was a poorer backwater back in the days. Most of their ancestors moved to North America to be hard labours and lived a miserable life. Guangdong and Fujian exported the most because they are coastal province. Jiangsu and Zhejiang, also coastal province exported far less because people didn't need to move/are less interested.
Think about it, crossing the pacific ocean to an English speaking country involves a lot of risks and you may lose your life on the way, without absolutely necessity, who would choose to do that? Think about the Irish mass immigration and the potato famine. They didn't exactly emigrate because they are curious about the outside world...
I think it would be beneficial for people to know more about China, not just a few mega cities and Canton. For example, most of my colleagues think there are two main languages in China, Mandarin and Cantonese, which can't be further from the truth.
Jiangsu is an exceptional province in China, and pretty much leads the country in every aspect (economy, culture, education, openness etc.), and Shanghai used to be just a part of Jiangsu. Cantonese is more influential overseas before a lot of poor Cantonese immigrated, while Jiangsu had no such tradition because it had always been a more wealthier province and hence less incentive to risk everything by moving to a different country. Illegal immigrants from Jiangsu are almost unheard of, contrary to Guangdong and Fujian provinces.
Are you originally from Jiangsu or that was your family root if you don't mind my asking?
I don't disagree with you, but I do think things have changed over the years with regards to regions in China and it's people. Just because Jiangsu has better educational institutions today and throughout history, doesn't necessarily mean people from Jiangsu are more educated today then say people from Guangdong. I think the opening up and influence of the Hong Kong border with Guangdong has added a lot of value to the people in Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Foshan and many of the large and mid-size cities in Guangdong. There is positive influence in Guangdong from Hong Kong and other foreign elements.
Just look at simple everyday things that you might observe in Shenzhen or Guangzhou versus places farther north like in Jiangsu, Zhenjiang or even Shanghai. Driving a car, waiting on lines, service in restaurants/hotels/shops, the way people treat each other. Guangdong has a far more civilized way about themselves when you compare it to Jiangsu/Zhejiang/Shanghai so I think over the years, there has been a shift. Its not always fair to say the more educated people are from Jiangsu or that region, is my point.
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