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Old 05-26-2016, 08:53 PM
 
662 posts, read 587,847 times
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Also.......I'm not sure I would boast about Hu Jintao and Jiang Zemin being from your beloved Jiangsu....haha...
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JakeinChina View Post
I don't disagree with you, but I do think things have changed over the years with regards to regions in China and it's people. Just because Jiangsu has better educational institutions today and throughout history, doesn't necessarily mean people from Jiangsu are more educated today then say people from Guangdong. I think the opening up and influence of the Hong Kong border with Guangdong has added a lot of value to the people in Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Foshan and many of the large and mid-size cities in Guangdong. There is positive influence in Guangdong from Hong Kong and other foreign elements.


Just look at simple everyday things that you might observe in Shenzhen or Guangzhou versus places farther north like in Jiangsu, Zhenjiang or even Shanghai. Driving a car, waiting on lines, service in restaurants/hotels/shops, the way people treat each other. Guangdong has a far more civilized way about themselves when you compare it to Jiangsu/Zhejiang/Shanghai so I think over the years, there has been a shift. Its not always fair to say the more educated people are from Jiangsu or that region, is my point.
In terms of education, there is no disagreement nation wide that Jiangsu leads the pack. It is not even controversial. Guangdong is kind of the Texas in China while Jiangsu is considered more like Massachusetts.


From other perspective, you have a point that education level don't determine how civilized people are. However, keep in mind the Yangtze Delta Area is much more populous/economically larger than the Pearl River Delta area and therefore attracts far more people from around the country, many of who have their problems in social behavior. It is like drivers are naturally better behaved in Austin than in Boston. Doesn't mean Boston is not more educated than Austin.


Opening up to Hong Kong means nothing. Hong Kong plays nearly no role in how Guangdong grows. It is just a midsized city nearby. The Chinese don't look up to Hong Kong and are mostly uninterested in it except for shopping.
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:24 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,286,480 times
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Originally Posted by JakeinChina View Post
Also.......I'm not sure I would boast about Hu Jintao and Jiang Zemin being from your beloved Jiangsu....haha...
I don't like them either, but we are talking about political power here.
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:06 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,673,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
In terms of education, there is no disagreement nation wide that Jiangsu leads the pack. It is not even controversial. Guangdong is kind of the Texas in China while Jiangsu is considered more like Massachusetts.


From other perspective, you have a point that education level don't determine how civilized people are. However, keep in mind the Yangtze Delta Area is much more populous/economically larger than the Pearl River Delta area and therefore attracts far more people from around the country, many of who have their problems in social behavior. It is like drivers are naturally better behaved in Austin than in Boston. Doesn't mean Boston is not more educated than Austin.


Opening up to Hong Kong means nothing. Hong Kong plays nearly no role in how Guangdong grows. It is just a midsized city nearby. The Chinese don't look up to Hong Kong and are mostly uninterested in it except for shopping.
Hong Kong plays a very important role in Guangdong's economic development. Far more than its area or population or even what the CCP will suggest. I do trade with mainland China, and have actual experience that even companies based in Beijing, Qingdao or even Dalian, choose to pay or be paid through Hong Kong, or even the cargo sometimes go through Hong Kong! I first visited Shenzhen more than 25 years ago, and the Shenzhen now and the Shenzhen then are worlds apart. And the one of the main reasons that Shenzhen grew to be like it is today is its proximity to Hong Kong. I have also visited the Jiangnan area, and it will not surprise me if the Pearl River Delta actually has a higher GDP per capita than the Jiangnan area. I have traveled to Zhanjiang (not to be confused with Zhejiang province), a city in Guangdong which is outside of the Pearl River Delta, and I know for sure that there is a huge disparity in the income levels and other measures between Zhanjiang and any city within the Pearl River Delta, so looking at the GDP per capita of Guangdong province alone is not giving an accurate picture.

It is true that the Jiangnan area (Jiangsu and Zhejiang) has been more prosperous historically, and both Guangdong and Fujian were more backwards in the past. But one of the reasons why these two provinces are among the most prosperous these days is because of their more "international" connections.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
It is true that the Jiangnan area (Jiangsu and Zhejiang) has been more prosperous historically, and both Guangdong and Fujian were more backwards in the past. But one of the reasons why these two provinces are among the most prosperous these days is because of their more "international" connections.
And Jiangsu has no international connections?


Not just in history. Today Jiangsu is more advanced than Guangdong in almost every single category. Ask any Chinese person and he will tell you the same story.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:41 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,673,392 times
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
And Jiangsu has no international connections?


Not just in history. Today Jiangsu is more advanced than Guangdong in almost every single category. Ask any Chinese person and he will tell you the same story.
Definitely, Jiangsu has international connections, but not more so than Guangdong by most measures. I don't need to ask any Chinese person. Are you from Jiangsu by any chance?

I have been to Shanghai, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Zhanjiang (Guangdong), Beijing, Dalian, Hong Kong and Macau. I can judge for myself. Without Shanghai, Jiangsu cannot be more "international". Suzhou itself even shares an airport with Wuxi, and it shows as "Wuxi" in the airline timetables. Travel by air to/from Jiangsu often passes by Shanghai. Likewise, international cargo ships use either Shanghai or Ningbo rather than within Jiangsu itself. Shenzhen has a stock exchange, there are none in Jiangsu. People with some connections with Guangdong are all over the world. Whatever measures are used, Shenzhen seems to be more prosperous than anywhere in Jiangsu. As I mentioned before, it is other cities outside the Pearl River Delta like Zhanjiang that weighs Guangdong down.

I am not exactly a fan of Guangdong, but it is what it is. I do feel that people from Suzhou are more refined in general than Shenzhen, but that doesn't change the fact that Shenzhen is "richer"... same way that not every billionaire is the most refined person. The city I have visited and like the most in China (excluding Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan) is actually Hangzhou, even if it is not usually in the top 5 cities in most rankings. That's more like personal preferences though. Going to visit Xiamen and Qingdao within the next 18 months, will see if I like either better than Hangzhou.
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Old 06-21-2016, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Arizona
7 posts, read 4,468 times
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Originally Posted by willister View Post
Even historically I think the Jiangsu region was almost always the richest, don't know why.


Guangdong is full of factories producing cheap goods.
People from Jiangsu are well educated and hard working mostly. The area also has vast geographical advantage over the rest part of China.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:02 AM
 
102 posts, read 48,841 times
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There are some regions where the Chinese are famous for being rich and do not need to work. They are known as the "Tu Hao" in modern PRC Chinese language.

This is only possible from around the 1990s.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:36 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,286,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Definitely, Jiangsu has international connections, but not more so than Guangdong by most measures. I don't need to ask any Chinese person. Are you from Jiangsu by any chance?

I have been to Shanghai, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Zhanjiang (Guangdong), Beijing, Dalian, Hong Kong and Macau. I can judge for myself. Without Shanghai, Jiangsu cannot be more "international". Suzhou itself even shares an airport with Wuxi, and it shows as "Wuxi" in the airline timetables. Travel by air to/from Jiangsu often passes by Shanghai. Likewise, international cargo ships use either Shanghai or Ningbo rather than within Jiangsu itself. Shenzhen has a stock exchange, there are none in Jiangsu. People with some connections with Guangdong are all over the world. Whatever measures are used, Shenzhen seems to be more prosperous than anywhere in Jiangsu. As I mentioned before, it is other cities outside the Pearl River Delta like Zhanjiang that weighs Guangdong down.

I am not exactly a fan of Guangdong, but it is what it is. I do feel that people from Suzhou are more refined in general than Shenzhen, but that doesn't change the fact that Shenzhen is "richer"... same way that not every billionaire is the most refined person. The city I have visited and like the most in China (excluding Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan) is actually Hangzhou, even if it is not usually in the top 5 cities in most rankings. That's more like personal preferences though. Going to visit Xiamen and Qingdao within the next 18 months, will see if I like either better than Hangzhou.
all you said might be true - Shanghai's importance to Jiangsu. However, Shanghai was a part of Jiangsu for a much longer time than it has been an independent municipality - only since 1927.Shanghai became the largest and most successful city before the beginning of the 20th century, before it left Jiangsu. So to say Jiangsu's wealth is due to proximity to Shanghai is kind of illogical.

Shenzhen being a spacial zone handpicked by Deng Xiaoping is vastly helped by favourable policies from the central government. None of the Jiangsu cities enjoy those preferential treatment.

You are exactly right that cities outside the Pearl River Delta weighs Guangdong down, which shows the Province is not that successful in general. The delta accounts for 80% of its GDP, and the two cities of Guangzhou and Shenzhen alone account for 50%, while western Guangdong cities are considerably poorer. Jiangsu on the other hand, is much more balanced. It has essentially no poor cities although there is no shining star like Shenzhen due to favourable policies.
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