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Old 07-13-2016, 02:36 AM
 
4,705 posts, read 3,622,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Losing face has to be one of those oft-quoted phrases that I don't understand. Both Chinese government and individual Chinese tourists have committed lots of shameful and embarrassing actions, but they seem to just ignore them. I believe that thick-skinned is a more appropriate description. I found few instances where I can truly say people from China are afraid of "losing face".
I have realized that Americans are like this too. If you are powerful, why do you care what others think?
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:55 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,672,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Ok, then I am sure you won't mind when the Chinese seize taiping island from Taiwan, since they don't, you know, care. I am expecting your big trap to stay shut when that happens, which is a distinct possibility within the coming months.
Doubt if China is that stupid to seize anything from Taiwan. After all, what Taiwan now occupies is officially still part of PRC. Might as well seize Kinmen and Matsu Islands as well. China has absolutely nothing to gain to attack any Taiwan-held territory. Unless the current Taiwan government withdraws itself from Taiping Island and allows the PRC to occupy the island instead. Why would the present Taiwanese government do that though?
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:26 AM
 
4,705 posts, read 3,622,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Doubt if China is that stupid to seize anything from Taiwan. After all, what Taiwan now occupies is officially still part of PRC. Might as well seize Kinmen and Matsu Islands as well. China has absolutely nothing to gain to attack any Taiwan-held territory. Unless the current Taiwan government withdraws itself from Taiping Island and allows the PRC to occupy the island instead. Why would the present Taiwanese government do that though?
Because someone claimed that the Taiwanese government doesnt care. Hence my conclusion. If they don't care, then China can and will certainly seize it rather than allowing the viets or the Filipinos to take it.

By the way, it is indeed pointless to seize kinsman and matsu....both have inhabitants who are completely pro-mainland. But it's not pointless or stupid for China to take taiping because it is strategically very important. It's the only true island in the whole SCS.
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:21 AM
 
1,089 posts, read 479,900 times
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Who is doing the ruling? It has nothing to do with UN. It's called Permanent Court of Arbitration located at The Hague (Dutch royal family organization). According to Wikipedia:

Quote:
The PCA is not a court, but rather an organiser of arbitral tribunals to resolve conflicts between member states.[1] It should not be confused with the International Court of Justice, a separate institution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perman...of_Arbitration

That's like Trump University.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:18 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txjl123 View Post
Who is doing the ruling? It has nothing to do with UN. It's called Permanent Court of Arbitration located at The Hague (Dutch royal family organization). According to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perman...of_Arbitration

That's like Trump University.
Yes, this is all over the place on Chinese social media today. In fact, the UN clarified today on this weibo (Chinese facebook) that this organization is just a tenant and is not part of the United Nations.


This "court" has nothing to do with the UN, and whatever its ruling is, it has nothing to do with so called "international law".


Among the 5 arbitrators, four of them are from Europe (Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland) and the fifth from Ghana but lives in Europe most of the time. So why are these people qualified to judge what happens in Asia? I don't know the answer, but the question mark remains.


Judges of UN court are paid by the UN and they don't receive money from countries involved in disputes. On the other hand, the Philippines government pays the compensation of these five judges in this arbitration, and therefore do you actually expect their conclusion to be favourable to the party the Philippines sues? Obvious conflict of interest.


So this "ruling" is nothing but a farce, and I am sure the US played a role as well.


I am not saying China is entitled to those island, but it seems this whole "international arbitration" drama is just laughable. Mr. Obama, try harder before you leave!
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Elysium
6,596 posts, read 3,648,823 times
Reputation: 4593
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post


Among the 5 arbitrators, four of them are from Europe (Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland) and the fifth from Ghana but lives in Europe most of the time. So why are these people qualified to judge what happens in Asia? I don't know the answer, but the question mark remains.
Isn't that the very definition of an uninterested arbitrator, that they don't have stakes in the outcome so they can make a fair ruling rather then doing something for their friend or against an enemy?
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:24 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Isn't that the very definition of an uninterested arbitrator, that they don't have stakes in the outcome so they can make a fair ruling rather then doing something for their friend or against an enemy?
Partially true. However, they need to demonstrate sufficient knowledge of Asian history as well as real impartiality, because by the same logic just because one is not from one of the parties, it doesn't mean their interest are not connected (we all know the Philippines is in the pocket of US, who tend to have high influence in Europe).


Additionally, why does everyone have to come to Europe? There are more countries out there. Too often a handful of western countries talk loudly as if they represent the entire "international community".
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,782 posts, read 13,369,912 times
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If the tribunal was made up of Asian nations - most of whom aren't particularly fond of a belligerent China - do you think the response would have been any different?
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,132,830 times
Reputation: 4566
^I guess he just wants a tribunal full of Chinese arbitrators.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:09 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
If the tribunal was made up of Asian nations - most of whom aren't particularly fond of a belligerent China - do you think the response would have been any different?
NO, it should be more evenly spread.


OK, can you imagine if two European countries have a dispute, they would allow an all-Asian tribunal to decide to outcome?


Put yourself in other people's shoes and you will realize how silly this is. Europe is an important part of the world, but let's not pretend it IS the world.
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