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Old 09-08-2016, 12:33 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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They have advantages and disadvantages. What are you proposing as an alternative? Pin-yin? Way too much ambiguity, there.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:00 AM
 
276 posts, read 204,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
They have advantages and disadvantages. What are you proposing as an alternative? Pin-yin? Way too much ambiguity, there.

In practical terms, Hanzi served its purpose way back when it was invented i.e. to unify different languages, merging it into one. I think in general with digitization these days, we should move to a logical alphabet be that can be easily typed into a computer and less focus on memorisation. Logographs like written Chinese should be relegated to history books.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
In practical terms, Hanzi served its purpose way back when it was invented i.e. to unify different languages, merging it into one. I think in general with digitization these days, we should move to a logical alphabet be that can be easily typed into a computer and less focus on memorisation. Logographs like written Chinese should be relegated to history books.
Chinese characters are easy to type if you know how to.
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Brazil
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Especially for the Chinese, who invented it and have used it for so long, it is so intertwined with their culture that I understand it being very hard to give it up, otherwise it would mean, to some extent, to give up a significant part of their heritage.

Still, at first glance, since I'm no expert, it does not look very practical. Just have a look at this chart of the 2,230 most common Kanji used in modern Japanese, organized by Halpern KLD index number (2,230 symbols to achieve some fluency!):



This is a Kanji with 29 strokes: 鬱!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_stroke_count

Quote:
Kanji (漢字; Japanese pronunciation: [kandʑi] listen) are the adopted logographic Chinese characters (hanzi)[1] that are used in the modern Japanese writing system along with hiragana (ひらがな, 平仮名), katakana (カタカナ, 片仮名), Hindu-Arabic numerals, and the occasional use of the Latin alphabet. The Japanese term kanji (漢字) for the Chinese characters literally means "Han characters"[2] and is written using the same characters as the Chinese hanzi (simplified Chinese: 汉字; traditional Chinese: 漢字).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,114,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joao View Post
Especially for the Chinese, who invented it and have used it for so long, it is so intertwined with their culture that I understand it being very hard to give it up, otherwise it would mean, to some extent, to give up a significant part of their heritage.

Still, at first glance, since I'm no expert, it does not look very practical. Just have a look at this chart of the 2,230 most common Kanji used in modern Japanese, organized by Halpern KLD index number (2,230 symbols to achieve some fluency!):



This is a Kanji with 29 strokes: 鬱!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_stroke_count


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji
There are English words with 29 alphabets as well. I don't see how stroke count would be more of a big deal than alphabet count.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:14 AM
 
501 posts, read 461,461 times
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I don't think stroke count is directly related to difficulty. That's like saying that "notebook" is harder to spell than "rhythm" because it has more letters. Just like many English words are compounds of other smaller words, like the word "notebook", chinese characters are made of components that make them simpler to write and remember.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Brazil
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^ What about the number of Kanji necessary to achieve some fluency? 2,230 symbols! How many letters does the alphabet have in comparison? 26 letters!
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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^How many words are required to be memorised to achieve fluency for an European language? 26 letters? I think not.
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Old 09-08-2016, 10:09 AM
 
6,465 posts, read 4,063,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strad View Post
I don't think stroke count is directly related to difficulty. That's like saying that "notebook" is harder to spell than "rhythm" because it has more letters. Just like many English words are compounds of other smaller words, like the word "notebook", chinese characters are made of components that make them simpler to write and remember.
This is correct. And there is also some truth to the idea that characters are not much harder to remember than the spellings of words.

After all, even words written in an alphabetic script are read as a unit by fluent readers, at a glance, not letter by letter.
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Old 09-08-2016, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Brazil
166 posts, read 107,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
^How many words are required to be memorised to achieve fluency for an European language? 26 letters? I think not.
There is a relationship between the oral and the written language whereas with Chinese characters there is not. I am not putting down Chinese characters. I am just trying to discuss and understand the impact it may have on the countries which adopt it. On this thread, I have quoted Father Joćo Rodrigues saying Chinese characters actually help the Chinese and the Japanese being smarter. However, I have also quoted Leibniz, the famous German philosopher, who believed the characters demand too much of one's memory.

Last edited by Joao; 09-08-2016 at 10:50 AM..
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