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Old 09-08-2016, 09:11 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 734,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
I've always thought for a tonal and varied language like Chinese, something like Bopomofo or some variation of it would be best. It still retains a level of 'Chinese-ness" and it unique, similar to that of Hangul. For that to happen though there would need to be a huge transition period, it won't happen as well as removing maybe 1-2 tones, making Mandarin a more pitch accent language, similar to that of Japanese.
Chinese characters are much easier to read than alphabets, after you master them.
We are all familiar with pinyin, but reading a text in pinyin is a pain.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Taipei
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^Yeah reading only bopomofo is impossible as well.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
It seems like only people who don't speak a slick of Chinese want to romanise it or further simplify the language. For what?
I know, right? In the same way, the people who clamor loudest for simplified English and spelling reforms are the non-native speakers.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:00 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
^How many words are required to be memorised to achieve fluency for an European language? 26 letters? I think not.
It's different, though. If you grow up learning the characters, that's one thing. But IMO they're very hard to learn and to retain without constant practice.


My observation is that people who's memory is more visual in nature--artists, for example--have a much easier time learning the characters. I struggled to learn them, and that was a long time ago, so I don't remember much. Plus, it was only simplified that I was learning, not traditional, yet it was still difficult for me. The spoken language was a piece of cake, because my memory works aurally, and I have a good ear. Even the tones were easy for me. But the written language-- *AUGHH* Torture! lol
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
With nowhere near the efficiency of English or Korean input. The fastest Chinese typists cannot match those of those languages based on an alphabet.
One can actually type Chinese with reasonable speed. It is just using different measures. If we consider each letter of the alphabet is a character, to type a letter is of course faster than typing one Chinese character. But one or two Chinese characters may already correspond to one English word. Chinese text is also often much shorter than English. 誤會 takes me 6 keystrokes to type using Pinyin method (similar number using other methods) while the English word "misunderstanding" uses 15 keystrokes. English is not necessarily faster.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
尘 and 国 become 会意字, not 形声字 any more. However it is still a "legitimate" way to make characters.
I suspect they got the 国 from Japan. Obviously some ideas were from Japan.
Actually, the simplified forms that are similar to Japanese kanji are not that bad aesthetically. The worst ones, IMHO, are those that are simpler than the Japanese forms. I think the simplified forms 东 , 车 , 专, 丰 are among the fugliest characters. The traditional forms 東 , 車, 專, 豐 look much better.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
One can actually type Chinese with reasonable speed. It is just using different measures. If we consider each letter of the alphabet is a character, to type a letter is of course faster than typing one Chinese character. But one or two Chinese characters may already correspond to one English word. Chinese text is also often much shorter than English. 誤會 takes me 6 keystrokes to type using Pinyin method (similar number using other methods) while the English word "misunderstanding" uses 15 keystrokes. English is not necessarily faster.
But that's due to the structure of the language?


Due to the number of homonyms and tones of Chinese it is incredibly difficult to master/input with decent speed.
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by willister View Post
But that's due to the structure of the language?


Due to the number of homonyms and tones of Chinese it is incredibly difficult to master/input with decent speed.
Yes, that's due to the structure of the language. Chinese is very concise and Chinese often has the fewest pages among translated works.

True, the number of homonyms and tones can make Chinese slightly slower and more difficult to type phonetically than other languages that are purely alphabet-based. The Chinese phonetic-based input systems, such as Pinyin and Zhuyin are slower and might be unsuitable for speed typing, such as merely inputting into the computer from printed materials. However, with optical character recognition and other technologies, there aren't that much of a need now to retype anything into the computer. For just daily computer work, such as composing emails, posting on forums like these, typing messages on phones, etc., the average speed in using these systems is more than sufficient.

Some speed typists might opt for non-phonetic systems such as Cangjie, but such are slightly more difficult to learn, although the typing speed can be much faster when one already gets used to it. Also interesting to note is that while Chinese may be more difficult to type using phonetic systems (as it is not a phonetic writing system), Chinese has much better text predictability and handwriting recognition compared to English. It is also among the easiest language to implement a text-to-voice reading system. So, even if Chinese characters pose some challenge, it is not consistently the most "difficult" language for everything.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
But that's due to the structure of the language?


Due to the number of homonyms and tones of Chinese it is incredibly difficult to master/input with decent speed.
We do not type Chinese by character, but by words. For instance, when you type the pinyin "wuhui", the target word 误会 will appear, with several other options like 舞会, but it is fast to pick the one you need. We do not use tones when typing.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,114,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
We do not type Chinese by character, but by words. For instance, when you type the pinyin "wuhui", the target word 误会 will appear, with several other options like 舞会, but it is fast to pick the one you need. We do not use tones when typing.
We do though lol. At least with zhuyin input system, they are necessary.
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