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Old 10-23-2016, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,175,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76 View Post
Yeah I think it's just the lower life thugs that don't know any better. We have the same problem in the US when certain types of riots break out. The ordinary, average, upstanding Filipino citizen isn't anti-US at all as far as I know. Quite the opposite. It's all definitely Duterte inspired but it seems like he's already toning down his crazy statements maybe, hopefully!
Is he toning them down? I feel like he's just getting started with it...

I've been having strange experiences already where Filipino friends I've known for a very long time, have suddenly started parroting Duterte's speeches...i.e. the Obama is a son-of-a-*****....and all kinds of other anti-american things....direct from Duterte's speeches.

People there really seem to love the guy....

Most of the toning-down is from his Advisors who try to get the media's attention after each outbreak, and they try to downplay it...
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,175,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
I agee with your entire post. I was and am still thinking of taking a vacation with wife and possibly grandkids to Phils in january but I worry both about Duterte's rhetoric sparking violence against Americans as well as the killing of drug dealers could cause you to innocently get killed. Now thinking Thailand or Vietnam might be safer.
I was just in Manila/Cebu about a month ago. Manila actually felt the safest I've felt it in a very long time. I even had a very honest taxi driver after sunset, and he told me that he feels it being safer everywhere, so much so, that he is now taking his taxi out at night...which he said he didn't do before.

That being said, the airport still felt just as corrupt as ever....every kind of scam going on, just as it always had...tons of extremely overpriced taxis that pretend to be official...tons of people in official uniforms everywhere trying to get people into the corrupt taxi network. You'd think that THAT would be the #1 thing to go, as it it SO highly visible and so widely-experienced by millions of people a week as an introduction to the corruption....but completely untouched and ignored by Duterte.

In other words, the Philippines is just as crooked and corrupt as always. So all the scams are still the same.

That being said, I would not want to go on Holiday in the Philippines and have to deal with anti-american rhetoric live, like the ones I've had online a bit recently with pro-Duterte Filipinos.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:22 AM
 
4,692 posts, read 3,616,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Right. Its now a minion of China. Not a big improvement.
Who said the Philippines will be a minion of China? The Chinese don't interfere in their internal affairs. At this point China probably want the Philippines to accept Chinese sovereignty of the scs in return for investments and fishing rights along with a share of oil profits. Not bad for a poor country who otherwise would get nothing but be dragged into a war as a us puppet against China, which can sink the two tugboats that constitute the Phil navy in less that 5 minutes.

The us aid of 200 mil a year is puny compare to chinese investments. The only problem is that if this Phil president actually go through with his rhetorics, the CIA will probably put a hit on him and he will either be killed or somehow eliminated. That's how the US works.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:56 AM
 
5,721 posts, read 4,627,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Is he toning them down? I feel like he's just getting started with it...

I've been having strange experiences already where Filipino friends I've known for a very long time, have suddenly started parroting Duterte's speeches...i.e. the Obama is a son-of-a-*****....and all kinds of other anti-american things....direct from Duterte's speeches.

People there really seem to love the guy....

Most of the toning-down is from his Advisors who try to get the media's attention after each outbreak, and they try to downplay it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post

That being said, I would not want to go on Holiday in the Philippines and have to deal with anti-american rhetoric live, like the ones I've had online a bit recently with pro-Duterte Filipinos.
I am going to get in touch with some ex-pats I know there in Phi. and see what they're saying. I was planning a trip there for early next year so I'm trying to ascertain it all and figure out what's going on as well.

What Duterte is doing is being a mini-Hitler using national pride and identity as a mask for his racism and to try and get people to dislike the US. This works on people that are poor, not very educated, don't have much going for them in life, and so on. It's the same thing that fuels anti-US terrorist groups and so on.

The people in the country have to be smart about it and realize he's completely nuts.

I'm curious as to to what the extent of it as well. You have to remember the internet brings out all of the trolls and morons on Youtube comments and so on. In the US we have people in our own country that were born here that are anti-US... the internet lets these losers shoot their mouth off from their parents basement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Who said the Philippines will be a minion of China? The Chinese don't interfere in their internal affairs. At this point China probably want the Philippines to accept Chinese sovereignty of the scs in return for investments and fishing rights along with a share of oil profits. Not bad for a poor country who otherwise would get nothing but be dragged into a war as a us puppet against China, which can sink the two tugboats that constitute the Phil navy in less that 5 minutes.

The us aid of 200 mil a year is puny compare to chinese investments. The only problem is that if this Phil president actually go through with his rhetorics, the CIA will probably put a hit on him and he will either be killed or somehow eliminated. That's how the US works.
You're absolutely insane. This is pure Duterte pro-China propaganda. The Philippines will get absolutely nowhere by tying themselves to China and not the US. Dragged into a war as a US puppet against China. That would never happen in a 1,000 years because China
can't afford to tick off the US and our allies.

Without the US...China sees the Philippines as a wounded animal that's easy prey and easy to push around. Duterte is a fool that's playing right into their hands.

How about China stops trying to steal people's islands?
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,175,100 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76 View Post
I am going to get in touch with some ex-pats I know there in Phi. and see what they're saying. I was planning a trip there for early next year so I'm trying to ascertain it all and figure out what's going on as well.

What Duterte is doing is being a mini-Hitler using national pride and identity as a mask for his racism and to try and get people to dislike the US. This works on people that are poor, not very educated, don't have much going for them in life, and so on. It's the same thing that fuels anti-US terrorist groups and so on.

The people in the country have to be smart about it and realize he's completely nuts.

I'm curious as to to what the extent of it as well. You have to remember the internet brings out all of the trolls and morons on Youtube comments and so on. In the US we have people in our own country that were born here that are anti-US... the internet lets these losers shoot their mouth off from their parents basement
I was thinking more of long-term Filipino friends that I know....I ignore the internet trolls that I don't know.

But I've had 2 incidents recently of Filipino friends that have brought up some of Duterte's words...i.e. the Obama is a son-of-*****....and the hypocrisy of the U.S. telling Duterte on Human Rights...

And before that incident, I had NEVER had any discussion ever about u.s. politics that wasn't 100% pro-American in every conceivable way. So, just having them initiate a 'Duterte told Obama off, didn't he' in a 'Obama had it coming, and so did the U.S.' kind of took me back. In general, Filipinos previously, have been some of the most apolitical people I've ever known, just completely embarrassed of their country's gov't.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,175,100 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Who said the Philippines will be a minion of China? The Chinese don't interfere in their internal affairs. At this point China probably want the Philippines to accept Chinese sovereignty of the scs in return for investments and fishing rights along with a share of oil profits. Not bad for a poor country who otherwise would get nothing but be dragged into a war as a us puppet against China, which can sink the two tugboats that constitute the Phil navy in less that 5 minutes.

The us aid of 200 mil a year is puny compare to chinese investments. The only problem is that if this Phil president actually go through with his rhetorics, the CIA will probably put a hit on him and he will either be killed or somehow eliminated. That's how the US works.
This is weird. The U.S. isn't going to drag the Philippines into a war with China.....I don't know if you've noticed, but the U.S. gov't goes way out of its way to avoid any conflict with China.

Russia for that matter as well. Russia took Ukraine, and the U.S. did nothing about it.

The LAST thing the U.S. can afford right now is another war.

Anyways, I couldn't understand some of your ideas....are you saying that the Philippines is going to get a good deal for giving its islands to China? If thats what you said, that's insane....giving away water rights is something you dont want to do...
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,361,441 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Who said the Philippines will be a minion of China? The Chinese don't interfere in their internal affairs. At this point China probably want the Philippines to accept Chinese sovereignty of the scs in return for investments and fishing rights along with a share of oil profits. Not bad for a poor country who otherwise would get nothing but be dragged into a war as a us puppet against China, which can sink the two tugboats that constitute the Phil navy in less that 5 minutes.

The us aid of 200 mil a year is puny compare to chinese investments. The only problem is that if this Phil president actually go through with his rhetorics, the CIA will probably put a hit on him and he will either be killed or somehow eliminated. That's how the US works.
Very simple and cartoonish thinking.

If it benefits China and they have the ability to do so, then of course they will interfere in the Philippines' affairs; right now, China is trying to establish itself as a power in the vein of the US and Russia and if it has the opportunity to do so and can figure out how to do it, then they'll do it. A Filipino pivot towards China is too delicious an opportunity to pass up - as you love to describe it, the Philippines is a developing, poor country... the only type of country China has been able to pull into its orbit globally are a handful of poor, otherwise undesirable places. This doesn't lend itself to much prestige. However, if they make it look like they manage to wrest control of one of the US' best allies in the region, even if that nation is poor, it makes China look stronger and is a big PR boost. If Duterte needs help eliminating dissent and making sure that he's able to stay in power as China's #1 buddy in the region then I'm sure they'd be happy to help out. They don't have any experience fighting a war, but there's something that they do have experience in

You, and of course the people of China, will be more than happy to forget that just a few weeks back China hated the Philippines and were boycotting their products, calling them horrible names, dumping on them as a nation and people. Because there's an ideologue who has deigns of being an autocrat in power who's willing to talk to them and it benefits them, they'll pretend they care long enough to do some vantiy projects as I described before. The "billions" in Chinese investments that pour in will most likely be one-time affairs. China will probably do the exact same thing it's done elsewhere in the world, and import Chinese workers to make sure that these projects are completed the way they want it to, at the price they want it to, in a way that benefits the Chinese economy as much as possible.

The best rationale for what he's doing is that they can at least form some sort of agreement with China that maybe gets the Philippines some money out of what China was going to do regardless, since the US isn't going to go to war with China over the issue and they aren't equipped to handle it themselves. That could have been done quite easily without all of the psychotic rhetoric that most likely won't lead to any good things for the nation.

In what world is the US going to drag anyone into a war with China? If the US wanted to start a war with China over the SCS it certainly could have already. Everyone with a stake in the disputed waters wanted to have the US there as a bulwark against China - Duterte doesn't, but most of his government and a significant chunk of his people do. Remember that he was elected on a platform of killing drug dealers and criminals and reigning in crime and corruption - all this anti-American, pro-China stuff has mostly come out of left field.

The CIA wouldn't be dumb enough to get its hands in the assassination of such a high-profile person, especially considering that a) everyone will immediately suspect them of it anyways, and a lot of people - especially people in uneducated, undeveloped nations - will already take it as established fact that they did it, and b) if he did follow through with all his nutcasery, he'd probably have more to fear from the military and/or his own government launching a coup than the US.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:53 AM
 
2,849 posts, read 3,938,204 times
Reputation: 3250
Asian countries see the USA as weak under Dem president Obama. It would be the same under a Hillary presidency. The leader that many of these countries see as strong and worth emulating is Putin.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,424 posts, read 12,425,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Asian countries see the USA as weak under Dem president Obama. It would be the same under a Hillary presidency. The leader that many of these countries see as strong and worth emulating is Putin.
A country's power isn't defined by their leader but by the entire population.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,361,441 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Asian countries see the USA as weak under Dem president Obama. It would be the same under a Hillary presidency. The leader that many of these countries see as strong and worth emulating is Putin.
Not sure where this comes from... Conservative American media? It doesn't have much to do with actual life or opinion in Asia. Most of the countries in Asia still see the US as strong, certainly strong enough to be involved in armed conflicts throughout Central and West Asia. They see China as strong, and the US as stronger, which is part of the reason that nearly all of them are buddied or buddying up to it in some way or another.

Which leaders are you talking about? The only one I can think of is Duterte...
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