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Old 01-29-2017, 07:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
actually its more about leadership, strategic planning, and execution.
This.
plus absence of democracy prematurely. A poor country can't afford to have democracy. It needs a strong government to get things done, not to please all interest groups and have everything half done.
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
This.
plus absence of democracy prematurely. A poor country can't afford to have democracy. It needs a strong government to get things done, not to please all interest groups and have everything half done.
that's crap. Its straight up leadership. A good leader can push through the opposition. Democracy in the end builds stronger institutions. Authoritarians must rule through fear. When their mandate of heaven is gone, the nation divides and the people suffer even more.
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Old 01-29-2017, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
that's crap. Its straight up leadership. A good leader can push through the opposition. Democracy in the end builds stronger institutions. Authoritarians must rule through fear. When their mandate of heaven is gone, the nation divides and the people suffer even more.
Why do you care how foreigners rule their own land? For Westerners, since authoritarian rule is so disastrous, isn't it a good thing then since it keeps the West at the top and everyone else at the bottom? I mean you don't see employees at Google complain about poor leadership at Microsoft when Ballmer was in charge so why would you want a competitor to steal trade secrets (in this case, Western democracy) and become successful? If China became a Western democracy (since this is supposedly the greatest thing in the world) and this led to a greatly diminished standard of living in the West, would you honestly support it?
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Old 01-29-2017, 03:31 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,102 posts, read 23,627,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Why do you care how foreigners rule their own land? For Westerners, since authoritarian rule is so disastrous, isn't it a good thing then since it keeps the West at the top and everyone else at the bottom? I mean you don't see employees at Google complain about poor leadership at Microsoft when Ballmer was in charge so why would you want a competitor to steal trade secrets (in this case, Western democracy) and become successful? If China became a Western democracy (since this is supposedly the greatest thing in the world) and this led to a greatly diminished standard of living in the West, would you honestly support it?
I don't see how a prosperous and stable China must necessarily mean other places need to take a nosedive. This is not a zero-sum game.
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I don't see how a prosperous and stable China must necessarily mean other places need to take a nosedive. This is not a zero-sum game.
It may not be a zero sum game but it does mean a relative decrease in power. For example, when China was still a planned economy and when the Soviet Union still existed, the United States had a greater share of the world economy than it does now. Let's say China copied the American political system wholesale in 1945 and this increased China's per capita GDP to around 30K US Dollars in 2017, that would be equivalent to a GDP of around $36 trillion. America's per capita GDP right now is $55K and this means a GDP of around $17 trillion. Do you really think this is an acceptable situation to Americans or Westerners?
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:21 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,102 posts, read 23,627,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
It may not be a zero sum game but it does mean a relative decrease in power. For example, when China was still a planned economy and when the Soviet Union still existed, the United States had a greater share of the world economy than it does now. Let's say China copied the American political system wholesale in 1945 and this increased China's per capita GDP to around 30K US Dollars in 2017, that would be equivalent to a GDP of around $36 trillion. America's per capita GDP right now is $55K and this means a GDP of around $17 trillion. Do you really think this is an acceptable situation to Americans or Westerners?
Yea, why not if there's belief that they are good faith actors? Japan and South Korea are major economic powers now that most Westerners believe are fine. Some people even get hella obsessed with them in a positive though almost frightening way.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:05 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
It may not be a zero sum game but it does mean a relative decrease in power. For example, when China was still a planned economy and when the Soviet Union still existed, the United States had a greater share of the world economy than it does now. Let's say China copied the American political system wholesale in 1945 and this increased China's per capita GDP to around 30K US Dollars in 2017, that would be equivalent to a GDP of around $36 trillion. America's per capita GDP right now is $55K and this means a GDP of around $17 trillion. Do you really think this is an acceptable situation to Americans or Westerners?
you really think that if China had copied the US political system it would would have a per cpaital GDP of 30k?

Why are you guys so naive?? It works for the US, not won't work China. Completely two different countries with vastly different history and people. Why do people honestly believe it is the western democracy that made western countries wealthy, or that if poorer countries had the same system, they would be prosperous??

Just look at this thread. India copied a western style democracy, so did a lot of other countries. Where did it lead to?

If the UK didn't have all the colonies and enslaved people to provide itself with cheap/free raw material from India and the rest of the world, if it hadn't forged ahead at the cost of its colonies, it wouldn't have been completed the industrial revolution in the first place and the west wouldn't be so far ahead at all. Yet you guys keep pretending that it was the superior political system that is creating magic.

But I agree this is a competition. The rise of China and other countries will definitely make the once dominant west less rich. It is for sure as a result of competititon of resources, and the fact the west doesn't always get the world to work the way it wants to suits its needs any more. In the past 20 years for example, US middle class standard living barely budged, yet in China, millions of people rose from being happy with owning a bicycle than driving all sorts of automobiles everywhere. In 1997, most Shanghainese lived in cramped 300sf apartments without even a toilet and shared kitchen, now it is a different world. It is not a zero sum game for sure, but some lose and some gain nevertheless.
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:18 AM
 
5,096 posts, read 2,743,062 times
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Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Till a few years ago I would have agreed on birth control and still think voluntary birth control is good but do nto favor the strict one child policy that China had until recently. This will lead to a male:female imbalance and in 30-40 years an ageing retiring non working population and not enough workers to support them.

Religious freedom is good and one should be able to freely practice their religion as long as they do not interfere with another religion. The government should get out of the business of promoting one religion over another religion or no religion.

I agree with you on education, infrastructure and caste politics.
Well then you see a market for import / mail order brides in the near future. There certainly is a $$$ to be made if you know how to get into the lady import business into china.

You're welcome!
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:22 AM
 
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India does not have the fertile grounds or natural resources that china has.

India has a 100's desperate cultures or tribes with varying languages traditions and religious beliefs. The official language may be Hindi but English is how the entire country communicates together (think about that).

Their political system is made up of dozens of parties with no clear majority. They pool together for temporary alliances to gains mojority but it falls apart so quickly you get no traction..

Bihar

Finally it is my belief that the end of times plagues or virus will come from India. Their sacred river (Ganges) gets filled with sewage due to poor or no plumbing. They bath in it, cook with it, drink it, and put their dead bodies (occasionally) in it. So many heath safety issues in India but this is a whole new level.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,508 posts, read 3,090,953 times
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Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
Well then you see a market for import / mail order brides in the near future. There certainly is a $$$ to be made if you know how to get into the lady import business into china.

You're welcome!
except there's not enough women in china. The wealthly take a mistress "ernai" second breast. The poor are left with their hands.
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