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Old 02-02-2017, 11:38 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
Thanks for highlighting the important differences. What about education? Is the standard same across the the cities? And do private schools do better than public/government schools? Is it more learning oriented or grade oriented?
China tries a standard education using largely the same textbooks, however, in reality the quality can be quite different as the richer regions will always have more of everything. However, college entrance is region based instead of a uniform standard so it is easier for students from less developed provinces to get into good school.

Private school just started not many years ago. Keep in mind that China's education system is more like France or Germany and different from US/UK, in the sense that the best schools are almost all public ones. "private school" in China doesn't have a glamour as it is in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I don't think the form of government is really the defining difference between the two. India could have tried for a centralized government authority post decolonization with nearly everything else being the same and its issues coule be largely the same or worse.
I think it does. India's central government is simply too weak to implement anything. After so many years, different India provinces still charge tariffs to each other, and the government simply can't even build basic transportation infrastructure in the country. On the other hand, strong central government enables China to build all the highways and the worlds longest high speed railway system so rapidly. It is not because China is extremely rich, but because China can get things done if it wants to. In 20 or 30 years, China's labour cost might be several times of today and it may not be afford to do all this. It is an extremely wise decision despite the curruption and waste involved. A new high speed rail was just approved linking my hometown with Shanghai directly, approved late 2016 and slated to be operating by 2020. Can you imagine a HSR completed in a matter of 4 years? This is what China is capable of. You want all the "consultation", "studies", reports, pleasing nimbys and "human rights", all the fancy things, fine, enjoy your 20 year project cycle and escalating cost. In New York and Toronto, a typical construction cycle to build a subway line is 10-15 years (excluding regulatory phase), in Shanghai or Beijing, it is 3-4 years. If India wants to do it the western way, feel free to, but keep enjoy the cow pulled carts on the streets of Delhi for a long time.

Many people say even lower cost countries can replace China for manufacturing consumer goods. No, it will take a long time simply because those countries don't have the good infrastructure China has. it will take India a very LONG time, and it is not something like "we speak English" can change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
how about religion? they have a lot while China somewhat stamped it out due to the CCP
Well, China was never particularly religious during its entire 3000-4000 years of history. Religion rarely played any significant role either in the government or among the people.

CCP doesn't mind religions. However, it a religious group becomes too big and influential, it would intervene. not because CCP hates religions, but because it hates everything that may potentially challenge its absolute power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDCB View Post
Thanks for the education.

Was recently in India and I will argue that English is becoming a standardized language of sorts. All forms are available in English and the new generation of kids all know English really well.
Politicians on TV mostly speak or are translated into English. I almost feel as though this will be an advantage when the west does business with India.

Excellent article and even cooler video. Garbage seems to be a huge issue.
Nitin Gadkari moots cycle tracks on roads, electric public transport | The Indian Express
Well, I am glad the Chinese are speaking a Chinese language as a lingua franca, not the language of a former colonist.

India has a long and respectable history, and I thought it could do better than simply adopting English. It is kind of sad to me.

Also, the "west" doesn't speak English. Only US/Canada/UK/Australia do. Don't confuse the two. If English gave a country some advantage, the UK would be vastly more advanced than France or Germany, and it is not the case. And if China is powerful enough, the west will learn Chinese, no need to worry about that.

Last edited by botticelli; 02-02-2017 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 02-02-2017, 11:43 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,102 posts, read 23,627,108 times
Reputation: 11599
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
China tries a standard education using largely the same textbooks, however, in reality the quality can be quite different as the richer regions will always have more of everything. However, college entrance is region based instead of a uniform standard so it is easier for students from less developed provinces to get into good school.

Private school just started not many years ago. Keep in mind that China's education system is more like France or Germany and different from US/UK, in the sense that the best schools are almost all public ones. "private school" in China doesn't have a glamour as it is in the US.



I think it does. India's central government is simply too weak to implement anything. After so many years, different India provinces still charge tariffs to each other, and the government simply can't even build basic transportation infrastructure in the country.

Many people say even lower cost countries can replace China for manufacturing consumer goods. No, it will take a long time simply because those countries don't have the good infrastructure China has.



Well, China was never particularly religious during its entire 3000-4000 years of history. Religion rarely played any significant role either in the government or among the people.

CCP doesn't mind religions. However, it a religious group becomes too big and influential, it would intervene. not because CCP hates religions, but because it hates everything that may potentially challenge its absolute power.



Well, I am glad the Chinese are speaking a Chinese language as a lingua franca, not the language of a former colonist.

India has a long and respectable history, and I thought it could do better than simply adopting English. It is kind of sad to me.

Also, the "west" doesn't speak English. Only US/Canada/UK/Australia do. Don't confuse the two. If English gave a country some advantage, the UK would be vastly more advanced than France or Germany, and it is not the case. And if China is powerful enough, the west will learn Chinese, no need to worry about that.
There was no way for India to actually have an effective central government upon decolonization. If they had tried for it, it'd be a central authority in name only because there was going to be little coherence among the states. They could have had a kingship, a theocracy, etc. whichever form to try to unify the states, but none of that would on their own have had any teeth to bridge the massive regional differences at the end of the British Raj. If there was anything that would have made sense, it would have been a realistic framework that the devolution of power was going to happen and the Indian country should probably have worked as a looser confederation.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:37 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
There was no way for India to actually have an effective central government upon decolonization. If they had tried for it, it'd be a central authority in name only because there was going to be little coherence among the states. They could have had a kingship, a theocracy, etc. whichever form to try to unify the states, but none of that would on their own have had any teeth to bridge the massive regional differences at the end of the British Raj. If there was anything that would have made sense, it would have been a realistic framework that the devolution of power was going to happen and the Indian country should probably have worked as a looser confederation.
I think China should thank two things

1, lack of religion and the related fragmentation associated with it. Religion divided people like nothing else does.

2, a long history of a highly centralized country since 2250 years ago.
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
453 posts, read 732,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post


Well, I am glad the Chinese are speaking a Chinese language as a lingua franca, not the language of a former colonist.

India has a long and respectable history, and I thought it could do better than simply adopting English. It is kind of sad to me.

Also, the "west" doesn't speak English. Only US/Canada/UK/Australia do. Don't confuse the two. If English gave a country some advantage, the UK would be vastly more advanced than France or Germany, and it is not the case. And if China is powerful enough, the west will learn Chinese, no need to worry about that.
I do agree that the central government is somewhat weak and disconnected by language and religion, but I also think it is mostly a product of corruption (at a different level than the US)

Agreed that the "west" doesn't speak English, though it may confer an advantage given that most technology is English based also. Someone studying the "electron" in India , France, or China has to have a bit of an English (science) base also.
Road building and associated civil engineering is likely a much easier translated, studied, and understood if you are German or French given the somewhat similar linguistic characters.

In the coming decades, it will likely become a war of resources and all three countries (especially the US) the US, China, and India are all blessed with them.
I'm hoping that corruption will improve with technological improvements. Social consciousness will follow.

Modi has shown some strength with demonitization. Let us see what else he can achieve. Seeing commercials on TV regarding sanitation also gives me a tiny glimmer of hope.
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Old 02-02-2017, 03:13 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDCB View Post
Agreed. Unfortunately, unlike Hong Kong it didn't acquire British roads and infrastructure.

Wait until desalinization catches on. I feel as though the long coastline will be utilized.
It did - the train system, also they did acquires roads and infrastructure but it was too large to be of any use. Anyway, sometimes it can be a curse as any place that receives infrastructure becomes complacent. Look at North East China (Dongbei) - train tracks developed by Japan & Russia, in the early days of Communist China it was arguably one of the best developed regions, they had a somewhat thriving heavy industry. It is now a rust belt and would continue to be UNLESS China starts exporting trains and planes.


India lacked a visionary, if you looked at how today's China developed it was basically from SEZs then trickling inward toward larger cities and then the hinterland, even Chengdu is now thriving. I guess being close to developed/wealthy economies in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan and South Korea and to a lesser extent Singapore has it's benefits. India didn't get support and won't get any support as most of their neighbours are downright poor, note that their closest developed manufacturing nation is Thailand?


Having said that what are the work ethics of Indians like? The Chinese work very hard, probably not as hard as Japanese or Korean levels but definitely and especially the 50+ generation, they did their fair share of toiling. I keep saying, Hong Kong was built on British Admin and Management and Chinese hard labour to morph into what it is today. One thing I have noticed with Indian colleagues/friends is that in general the majority are still steeped in religion, even the ones in their 20s....this holds them back somewhat? I find the Asians, namely Chinese, mich more practical i.e. if it gets you a better job/life/salary package, they'll do whatever it takes.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Earth
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The only religion that holds people back is orthodox islam and evangelical christianity These prevent the free exchange of ideas like communism does.
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,102 posts, read 23,627,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
The only religion that holds people back is orthodox islam and evangelical christianity These prevent the free exchange of ideas like communism does.
I think any ultraconservative insular religion does so--hasidic ultraorthodox judaism has similar issues and strict observance of hinduism and the caste system is also detrimental.

I don't think communism itself requires anyone to stop the free exchange of ideas--it's more authoritarian government whether communist or corporatist.
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:26 PM
 
Location: The end of the world
594 posts, read 222,573 times
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India is a smaller nation compared to China and they are not behind at all. They are doing very well in many areas. So be aware that China ( big mother China ) have more people then one could count compared to India. So India must be ahead of China. So far I will admit China does have many more aspects over Indian and that is variety. However India has a foot in the door that is not leaving anytime soon.
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:45 AM
 
47 posts, read 26,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
THe island was democratic. outside the island is fair game. Britain's policy was make the world england.



You're right. This describes the middle kingdom and its hukou system perfectly. Looks like red china's bringing theirs back with the princelings. Rich chinese look at the poor and dark people like they are peasants and field workers.

got jesus?
hukou system is evil? if without hukou system, people will flood into megacities. and what is wrong with hukou system. i can be any career that i want. i am a zhejiangnese bc of my Hukou, so what is wrong. cant i be rich bc i am an zhejiangnese? cant i be a dentist bc of my hukou?
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:01 PM
 
47 posts, read 26,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Till a few years ago I would have agreed on birth control and still think voluntary birth control is good but do nto favor the strict one child policy that China had until recently. This will lead to a male:female imbalance and in 30-40 years an ageing retiring non working population and not enough workers to support them.

Religious freedom is good and one should be able to freely practice their religion as long as they do not interfere with another religion. The government should get out of the business of promoting one religion over another religion or no religion.

I agree with you on education, infrastructure and caste politics.
you might misunderstood religion control in China, people can practice their religion freely. the religion controlling in China make religions be equal . the policy decrease the conflicts between different religion. the the society can be in harmony
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