U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-07-2019, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere on this 3rd rock from the sun
518 posts, read 721,520 times
Reputation: 706

Advertisements

Also....what makes you think Kerala of all places could secede?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-07-2019, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Islamabad , Pakistan/ Albany , NewYork
347 posts, read 280,899 times
Reputation: 161
One problem with India is its dealing with Pakistan itself. Like I said its just not ruthless enough. India has gotten bogged down by a country that is six times smaller It gets bullied at the border and loc by its smaller rival , instead of dishing it back India tries to take the moral high ground to seek validation from the west. Pakistan has been ruthless in its dealings with India . Its supporting the insurgencies in India in a much active way . ISI is bleeding India by a thousand cuts. Having nuclear power parity with India , Pakistan is getting away with anything it does without any clear response from india. India's Pakistan policy isnt consistent and clear enough.

Pretty much throughout its wars with Pakistan ( Apart from 71 ) all wars were stalemates with India getting heavy losses in 48 and 65 war. In 1999 Kargil war the Indians were surprised to see Pakistanis right on their head in Kashmir. It took thousands of Indian army and IAF just to dislodge a few hundred PK infantry from the mountain. Pakistan being a smaller nation has always been aggressive . India is just to passive and wants to be liked by the west.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2019, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,508 posts, read 3,090,953 times
Reputation: 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
India will NEVER EVER be a superpower. It is far more likely to completely disintegrate- which would actually be good. I have always thought India needs to be divided. It is like Europe with each state so different from the other they might as well be different nations. I would like to know your background- Are you from India or live there? Because this India kool-aid that the west has been drinking needs to be investigated. Westerns are so incredibly naive(I know- a steep generalization but I know it is true) that this ignorance will be their undoing. Its already happening. The 21st century will belong to China and rightfully so. Morality has destroyed the western psyche.

Now, back onto the glorious subject- India is strife from internal tension(just google the Maoists and red corridor) and most states are actively wanting a seccesion. Theres Khalistan which is one incident away from becoming a reality, south states want their own republic and the North Easterns are so much like the Chinese they'd rather go become a chinese state. Raheel makes some fantastic points- The problem with India is that it is an incredibly inward looking, myopic society, with absolutely zero interest about the history and culture of other nations. This is why it has been invaded and owned THROUGHOUT its history- the mughals, british, anyone and everyone. One reason I have always believed in imperialism is because of the state of this nation for the past 5000 years. It has to be witnessed to be believed- this thorough lack of introspection, this ignorance. The 1962 war was so bloody embarassing for the Indians but why? Ever wondered? Because the morons refused to get help. They actually believed their own hype and got owned. Read a fantastic book called JFK's forgotten crisis. China doesn't give two ****s about India and they can invade and own India at any given time. And I am an Indian living here in Bombay who has lived in Canada, China and the US.

I think you are wrong on red china Right now, it would be the perfect time for china to take over the world while trump is in power. However, Xi showed his cards too early. Indo-pacific countries already are trying to stop chinese loans. Europe is finally getting a school. And chinese racism is starting to run a foul in africa. Venezuela is up in the air. THe communist party also abolished term limits. What happens if Xi goes the way of mugabe? Look what happened to zimbawae. When Xi screws up, he has no one to scapegoat since locked up all his enemies. Also, look at putin's russia. All it produces it guns and oils. Russia is one of the most resource rich countries in the world yet its people do not benefit. I don't think china will take over even by force. They do not allow the free exhange of ideas. They only steal. Don't forget, thousands of chinese still run to america for education. They also buy real estate in the US as a safe haven. Don't forget, the chinese especially the ones in power have inferiority complex dating back to the invasion of the manchus and the opium wars. Don't forget that china might grow old before they rich. THey are starting to experience the same population decline that japan and europe are experiencing.


Trump is temporary. He might get a another term but congress keeps him in check. I think the 21 century is up in the air but it might still belong to the US.


Whether india wants to be a superpower, its up to india. I think if it was going to break up, it would have happened long ago. British invaded at right time. If they happens, I think the indian subconitnent would have be reunited under the marathas/sikhs.



1962 happened because nehru was idiot. India has a superior airforce at the time and it was not used. THey should have helped tibet remain a buffer state. It was stupid not to.


Remember, never trust a communist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2019, 08:11 AM
 
3,602 posts, read 1,554,600 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
That was a point you made, although my own opinion is that religion is the bane. Plain and simple. It is bad in many more ways than good especially in the subcontinent. The entire subcontinent has a strange disposition. They are more inward looking and "demure" than others. Everyone notices this nowadays.

Don't you understand the point: Be it Sri Lanka or Pakistan or India the majority of the people are god fearing.Not just religious but god fearing. If you can check my post history- I made a point on the religion forum on why morality is only applicable to the sheep(middle class) and not to anyone in the higher power who have all got there based on varying degrees of amorality? Have you ever thought about it? Be it India or the US, to varying degrees the majority of wealthy and powerful have always belonged to the dark side.People just...forget. Life goes on.

I have observed society keenly and I can tell from my observations that the majority of people in India are irrational. It is obvious from physical mannerisms and from long sustained relation. Apart from religion the other bane is patriotism. Extreme jingoism. The problem is Indian psyche is unstable, as harsh as it sounds. The people, in my opinion start out as too honest and trusting but with age a certain cynicism and hatred sets in. You can see it in the comments section of most India related videos. Too society minded- money, status, arrogance. A friend in Canada used to say the only people who gel with Indians are used car salesmens.

Another issue is Indian democracy is ****ed. But its not Indian democracy. In my opinion the system is faulty. Democracy cannot sustain too much intermixing and multiculturalism. India is too fragmanted, as is the US. I may come across as a right wing nut but I'd be a liberatarian. Its a great stance. This is why I question patriotism in general. There is respect for the military(if for no other reason then their regime and physical traits) but loving a nation has never made sense to me. The administration MUST ALWAYS be corrupt. It is a psychological given. Show me a stable democracy that did not eventually crumble? India's been going for 5k years. But the people are too fragmamted to give a ****. Unlike my observation of the Chinese people.

One of my professors made a sound comment that went "with the majority of elections everwhere in democracy in the world has seen something like: there are two major parties competing and the margin of error isn't a lot. 60-40, 45-55 by division of vote- and it is true. Meaning at any given time half the population is not just divided but the losers. Losers will try the next four years to bring the winner down, eventually the junta chooses the lesser of the two." Its TRUE. Most people in any democracy in the world are probably just sick of it.

The reason the right wing of the United States will never succeed is because they brought in christianity and all the moral bull**** with it. I have a firm opinion that christianity is the worst thing to have happened to the western world. Worse than the bubonic plague and worse than the wars. Its had some good effects but the majority of it destroys the will of power of an individual. Had the west completely chosen to study Neitczhe and his works they'd put stations on Mars by now. And the same to varyong degrees in Europe. India with its 1.6 billion mass of religious ferverts will never attain status. Too many interests.

Put it bluntly religion is India's deathknell whatever you may say. It is my firm belief. Having spent time in beijeing, especially among students of politics I can put 200 dollars on the fact that China is a powerhouse of the future. It is simply down to the fact that they have a one party rule with a boss leader(Xinping), and their discarding of faith- a complele separation of state and faith.

Like India the west(Australia, Canada, US and England- which is already dieing in many ways) will also erode slowly. I see it in Journalism, media and on college campuses.
I agree with you on many points. Middle class morality, Democracy etc. I think its a propaganda used by higher powers . Because if the middle class slips up, then there is no one to pay tax

I dont also contest your views on patriotism and moral policing. But I would still say its at the minimum in countries like India and USA. Do you think you can burn a flag in pakistan or china and still live?? ( However I dont support burning any flag at all)

Invasions have happened. But have they destroyed the fabric?? Mughals used brute force. British used divide and rule. They worked to certain extent but IMO bigger threat is the social and cultural invasion that has the potential to disintegrate the society.

China may have separation of faith and state. But it works well because of homogeneous populace. In India no one listens to anyone and its hard to get the point across. One more hypocrisy about religion is that there are very succesful people claiming that the country has become intolerant. What happen to the same intolerance when they were growing up??

And if you observe the Pakistani posters ,they only know about rape, lynching, cow etc, they dont nkow about crores of Muslims getting educated and living successfully. There was a famous British historian who commented during partition that India was lucky to have guys like Abul Kalam Azad who lived his life as per the pure principles of his religion, while the country got handed over to Nehru and his Pakistani counterpart who were spoiled by Western ideas of that time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2019, 08:17 AM
 
3,602 posts, read 1,554,600 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheel12 View Post
One problem with India is its dealing with Pakistan itself. Like I said its just not ruthless enough. India has gotten bogged down by a country that is six times smaller It gets bullied at the border and loc by its smaller rival , instead of dishing it back India tries to take the moral high ground to seek validation from the west. Pakistan has been ruthless in its dealings with India . Its supporting the insurgencies in India in a much active way . ISI is bleeding India by a thousand cuts. Having nuclear power parity with India , Pakistan is getting away with anything it does without any clear response from india. India's Pakistan policy isnt consistent and clear enough.

Pretty much throughout its wars with Pakistan ( Apart from 71 ) all wars were stalemates with India getting heavy losses in 48 and 65 war. In 1999 Kargil war the Indians were surprised to see Pakistanis right on their head in Kashmir. It took thousands of Indian army and IAF just to dislodge a few hundred PK infantry from the mountain. Pakistan being a smaller nation has always been aggressive . India is just to passive and wants to be liked by the west.
You mean ruthless in teh sense India should have executed the 70,000 POW's captured in East Pakistan when Col.Niazi signed the surrender ??

Thats not in their DNA. Its not about validation in the West. Having been around for 1000's of years , they understand war doesnt help with anything. It only brings more single households.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2019, 08:53 AM
 
3,602 posts, read 1,554,600 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
Also....what makes you think Kerala of all places could secede?
Gulf money and Wahabi ideology .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2019, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Islamabad , Pakistan/ Albany , NewYork
347 posts, read 280,899 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
You mean ruthless in teh sense India should have executed the 70,000 POW's captured in East Pakistan when Col.Niazi signed the surrender ??

Thats not in their DNA. Its not about validation in the West. Having been around for 1000's of years , they understand war doesnt help with anything. It only brings more single households.
No they should have used that leverage to take back Pakistani Kashmir. But Indhira Gandhi got outsmarted by Bhutto during the bilateral talks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2019, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Somewhere on this 3rd rock from the sun
518 posts, read 721,520 times
Reputation: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheel12 View Post
No they should have used that leverage to take back Pakistani Kashmir. But Indhira Gandhi got outsmarted by Bhutto during the bilateral talks.






Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Somewhere on this 3rd rock from the sun
518 posts, read 721,520 times
Reputation: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
Gulf money and Wahabi ideology .
I will be reseaching these tonight
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2019, 03:11 PM
 
3,602 posts, read 1,554,600 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheel12 View Post
No they should have used that leverage to take back Pakistani Kashmir. But Indhira Gandhi got outsmarted by Bhutto during the bilateral talks.
Yes I read an article about it sometime ago that it was expertly and smartly done by Bhutto.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top