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Old 01-06-2017, 10:58 PM
 
569 posts, read 372,294 times
Reputation: 275

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The R.O.C. government had one clear direction to get everybody fed and educated. The Mandarin language which it used was very transparent. And the iron rules would surely fall on the elders of the old cultures, who were the dissidents not willing to surrender their unrightful and over abused privileges that caused the Opium War. The elders' reasons were always the same"mind your own house." So the absolute actions from the former KMT government won itself the medal of the authoritian government. However, these were the history for trying to pull all the Chinese into one unity.


Yet later, they were falling back to the culture states of the same India. It had many many diversities, and many many mother tongues. I guess the old princesses and emperors would like to stay. Had their ?authentic forerunners told them where they were from? And how did the Chinese civilization found its foundations? The sane (or the religious) would never dare to claim the (Chinese) throne.


So, there you go: a house against each others could not stand.

Last edited by CPPU12345; 01-06-2017 at 11:11 PM.. Reason: to retaking the mainland was optional and for the entertainment purposes. Everybody needs something to live for.
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:52 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,771 posts, read 5,114,752 times
Reputation: 4555
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
In fact, China is starting from such a low base that if they were to go backwards in regards to all of those, the legitimacy of the CCP would be under severe distress.
Really? Who would question the legitimacy of the CCP even if some real **** hits the fan or if the rule of law/corruption gets worse?

Last edited by Greysholic; 01-07-2017 at 04:01 AM..
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:39 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
I didn't say anything about those not requiring a transparent and free government. I said they need to strengthen it (aka improve). China is starting from a very low base in regards to all of the above so they have nowhere else to go but up. In fact, China is starting from such a low base that if they were to go backwards in regards to all of those, the legitimacy of the CCP would be under severe distress.
really? nowhere else to go but up?
maybe you should look at countries like Haiti before making that kind of claim.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:45 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
India has a few things going against it that will prevent it from truly advancing

1. Lack of infrastructure. Constant power cuts. No decent roads. Poor housing and sanitation.
2. Corruption. It exists at the lowest level (bribing police) and at the highest level ( bribing politicians millions of rupees)
3. Lack of civic sense. People urinate and defecate in the streets. They throw trash right outside their house but keep their house spotless.
4. Regionalism. People think of their state and language first and their country last.
5. Caste divisions. This plays a huge role in politics where politicians buy votes from their caste members to stay in power.
6. Religious strife. Constant battles between Muslims and Hindus, especially in the northern states.
7. Pakistan. The semi-war that is fought on the western and Northern front causes a huge drain in the resources.
8. Lack of motivation to be the top. All the students want to do is memorize and sometimes cheat in exams to get top scores. Creativity does not count much.

Hopefully Modi can make some inroads into corruption and the younger generation have more civic pride. But Indians don't want to be under s dictatorship like China where all are equal but some more than others. Their choice.
China is authoritarian, not a dictatorship. I thought it had been clarified many times. Please don't throw words around so freely. Xi Jinping is not a dictator and definitely can't do anything he wants. Plus Xi has 5 more years before he leaves power. This is not what dictators normally do.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:16 AM
 
603 posts, read 464,496 times
Reputation: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Surprised no one mentions Imperial Germany and Imperial Japan before WWI. Both rapidly modernized and in the case of Germany, it was the most technologically advanced country in the world with more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other country. Both countries were also authoritarian and incredibly militarist (China isn't particularly militarist even by today's standards - they spend less than 2% of GDP on defense). Both also produced a lot of art and culture while imposing censorship. China, for all its problems with censorship, doesn't seem to put any kind of scientific restrictions or censorship so its current technological problems have more to do with how they are still behind due to not being a developed country rather than government restrictions.

What China needs to do right now is strengthen institutions and eliminate corruption and strengthen the rule of law. These are more important than democracy
.

This is naive. You cant eliminate corruption and achieve true rule of law without a truly politically independent judiciary. Something that necessarily cant exist under a single party authoritarian regime. Nor is it possible to hold a leadership accountable when they rule without the consent of and cannot be replaced by the people they govern. And when opposition parties are not allowed.

When Xi Jinping speaks of tackling corruption, hes full of it. Centralized authoritarian government institutionalizes corruption. Anti corruption purges are primarily used to take out rivals and potential rivals whilst ignoring the same transgressions by allies.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
1,933 posts, read 936,482 times
Reputation: 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
China is authoritarian, not a dictatorship. I thought it had been clarified many times. Please don't throw words around so freely. Xi Jinping is not a dictator and definitely can't do anything he wants. Plus Xi has 5 more years before he leaves power. This is not what dictators normally do.
Well you can consider it authoritarian but I would consider Singapore authoritarian rule. China is much more than that and Xi is a totalitarian or a dictator for 5 years, maybe more if he wants. He can basically do what he wants and you are kidding yourself if you think the central politburo / committee can rein him in.

Well let us agree to disagree the definition of the rule presently in China.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:01 PM
 
4,666 posts, read 3,607,316 times
Reputation: 7377
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
This is naive. You cant eliminate corruption and achieve true rule of law without a truly politically independent judiciary. Something that necessarily cant exist under a single party authoritarian regime. Nor is it possible to hold a leadership accountable when they rule without the consent of and cannot be replaced by the people they govern. And when opposition parties are not allowed.

When Xi Jinping speaks of tackling corruption, hes full of it. Centralized authoritarian government institutionalizes corruption. Anti corruption purges are primarily used to take out rivals and potential rivals whilst ignoring the same transgressions by allies.
Well, Chinese authoritarianism got Xi and a bunch of technocrats into the Chinese Politbureau. American republican democracy got us Trump and his Agent Orange crew.....nough said
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:47 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Well you can consider it authoritarian but I would consider Singapore authoritarian rule. China is much more than that and Xi is a totalitarian or a dictator for 5 years, maybe more if he wants. He can basically do what he wants and you are kidding yourself if you think the central politburo / committee can rein him in.

Well let us agree to disagree the definition of the rule presently in China.
It only shows your lack of understanding of Chinese politics, that's all.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
453 posts, read 732,750 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
India has a few things going against it that will prevent it from truly advancing

1. Lack of infrastructure. Constant power cuts. No decent roads. Poor housing and sanitation.
2. Corruption. It exists at the lowest level (bribing police) and at the highest level ( bribing politicians millions of rupees)
3. Lack of civic sense. People urinate and defecate in the streets. They throw trash right outside their house but keep their house spotless.
4. Regionalism. People think of their state and language first and their country last.
5. Caste divisions. This plays a huge role in politics where politicians buy votes from their caste members to stay in power.
6. Religious strife. Constant battles between Muslims and Hindus, especially in the northern states.
7. Pakistan. The semi-war that is fought on the western and Northern front causes a huge drain in the resources.
8. Lack of motivation to be the top. All the students want to do is memorize and sometimes cheat in exams to get top scores. Creativity does not count much.

Hopefully Modi can make some inroads into corruption and the younger generation have more civic pride. But Indians don't want to be under s dictatorship like China where all are equal but some more than others. Their choice.
I think this is a really good post; makes great points!

I currently am visiting South India and know most about this area and will admit that I do not know much about China. I think a better question to ask, at least in the sense of India's progression, is why India has not progressed (not in comparison to China)

1. Infrastructure - agree that housing and sanitation are quiet lacking still. The roads have improved quiet drastically in the last 5-10 years. A three hour trip that I took 5 years ago, now takes just one hour. The national highway authority has instituted tolls and the roads are drastically improved (though poorly planned for the future and has cross walks on the highway!) power cuts are non existent here and I think that leap frog in technology (solar in specific) will improve electricity. More important is the upgrade to the distribution lines. Public transport is terrible here though apparently the Delhi subway has developed well.
Housing is poorly built in trade off with saving money. Public sanitation is well known to be poor.

2. Agree with corruption. Again, digitizing the economy will help.

3. Regionalism and lack of civic pride can be taken one more step to argue that folks don't care about anything else than money and building wealth. There is not much of a concern about subjects such as environmentalism, excercise, or any global concerns. Family first before anything else.

4. Lack of motivation in terms of student progression. Memorization of notes are priortized above creativity for sure.

Will post when my internet is better...
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
1,933 posts, read 936,482 times
Reputation: 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDCB View Post
I think this is a really good post; makes great points!

I currently am visiting South India and know most about this area and will admit that I do not know much about China. I think a better question to ask, at least in the sense of India's progression, is why India has not progressed (not in comparison to China)

1. Infrastructure - agree that housing and sanitation are quiet lacking still. The roads have improved quiet drastically in the last 5-10 years. A three hour trip that I took 5 years ago, now takes just one hour. The national highway authority has instituted tolls and the roads are drastically improved (though poorly planned for the future and has cross walks on the highway!) power cuts are non existent here and I think that leap frog in technology (solar in specific) will improve electricity. More important is the upgrade to the distribution lines. Public transport is terrible here though apparently the Delhi subway has developed well.
Housing is poorly built in trade off with saving money. Public sanitation is well known to be poor.

2. Agree with corruption. Again, digitizing the economy will help.

3. Regionalism and lack of civic pride can be taken one more step to argue that folks don't care about anything else than money and building wealth. There is not much of a concern about subjects such as environmentalism, excercise, or any global concerns. Family first before anything else.

4. Lack of motivation in terms of student progression. Memorization of notes are priortized above creativity for sure.

Will post when my internet is better...
I was in South India until a week ago and found a tremendous contrast between Tamil Nadu and Kerala.

Chennai was in bad shape but was recovering from the effects of hurricane. Trees were fallen and cut haphazardly with chainsaws. But what was sad was that the locals used the head of fallen branches to add household waste doubling th epile in size and making it unsightly. The same throwing of trash on to the streets was seen all over Tamil Nadu.

But the streets of Kerala were much cleaner. The trash level was only a couple of steps above my state of SC. People were courteous. I think sanitation needs to be improved and also the road width and traffic sense. But it has much better potential to develop that Tamil Nadu.

The reason I was given was foreigners were coming to enjoy the backwaters of Kerala and the money was used to develop the state. But then I have the question for Tamil Nadu - if you do not develop basic infrastructure why would foreigners come to your state.
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