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Old 01-10-2017, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,121,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Only Mandarin has a formal written language. Educated Cantonese people read and write in "Mandarin" too, even if they do not speak it.
It is just like Standard German (Hoch Deutsch). No matter what German dialect people speak, they only read and write in Standard German for anything formal.
Funny because I often have zero idea what HKers are writing about when they write in Cantonese.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:10 PM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,604,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Funny because I often have zero idea what HKers are writing about when they write in Cantonese.
1. That is not formal.
2. That is actually not hard to understand, after you get familiar with a few functional words (pronouns, prepositions etc.). The mapping from Cantonese to Mandarin is pretty straightforward, more so than Minnan or even Shanghainese.
3. I doubt you really have zero idea. For ordinary Chinese people, even Japanese articles are comprehensible to some extent.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:37 PM
 
569 posts, read 372,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby2016 View Post
Does anyone know if Sally Yeh really cannot read Chinese at all, or maybe the information and Sally herself is exaggerating and maybe is trying to say her reading level is basic at most?

However, she speaks Mandarin and Cantonese very good. Her Cantonese is so much better than a lot of the other Mandarin speaking celebrities in Hong Kong that learned to speak Cantonese.
Basically, when the people who could not read the Chinese scripts entering the Chinese communities, I would not like to count them as the true Chinese. The traditional Chinese scripts had their history. To be fluent in the Chinese cultures, then a person had to comprehend the scripts. So there were the differences between the peasants and the Imperial throne room attendants.


Speaking from the orthodox like me, she was no more than a messenger. Which meant that she had no ideas or did not care whatever happened in the past. That wasn't her faults. Let the dead bury the dead. Everything finally came to pass. Don't take me wrong: a'm really glad of it.


Anyway the Chinese or the no Chinese, the communications are always the same.

Last edited by CPPU12345; 01-10-2017 at 10:50 PM.. Reason: readable
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:51 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,260,811 times
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To write in Cantnese is a laughable idea.

Yeah, ask a Hker to write something about literatures or science in CANTONESE, hahaha. Cantonese is like some colloquial African dialects, you can speak in it, you can sing in it, but you can't write about anything serious in it.
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:30 AM
 
55 posts, read 32,974 times
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Nobody care if she can read and write Chinese in HK.


These people may be successful in the tv or music industry but usually no in many other industries in HK.


There are many overseas born Chinese, South Asians and westerners who can speak fluent Cantonese in HK but cannot read and write. There are also many overseas born Chinese, Mainland Chinese and foreigners who cannot speak Cantonese or Chinese in HK.


All these people are considered not integrated in HK society and considered as minorities.
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:40 PM
 
3,339 posts, read 2,077,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
To write in Cantnese is a laughable idea.

Yeah, ask a Hker to write something about literatures or science in CANTONESE, hahaha. Cantonese is like some colloquial African dialects, you can speak in it, you can sing in it, but you can't write about anything serious in it.
aren't most overseas Chinese in SE Asia Cantonese?
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:50 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
aren't most overseas Chinese in SE Asia Cantonese?
No.


Thailand = Mostly Teo Chew
Myanmar = Mostly Hakka, some Cantonese
Singapore & Malaysia = Mostly Hokkien, some Teo Chew.
Vietnam = Mostly Teochew, some Hokkien, some Cantonese, some Hakka.


The Hokkiens are probably the best business man of the lot, then Teo Chews. Cantonese and Hakkas are the poorest historically, mainly working in the more hard labour/dangerous fields in SE Asia. I don't think there is one single country that the Cantonese dominate in numbers, but due to the popular culture at the time of HK, Cantonese seems the be the lingua franca of most of SE Asia's Chinese communities.
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Old 02-13-2017, 07:24 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,669,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
No.


Thailand = Mostly Teo Chew
Myanmar = Mostly Hakka, some Cantonese
Singapore & Malaysia = Mostly Hokkien, some Teo Chew.
Vietnam = Mostly Teochew, some Hokkien, some Cantonese, some Hakka.


The Hokkiens are probably the best business man of the lot, then Teo Chews. Cantonese and Hakkas are the poorest historically, mainly working in the more hard labour/dangerous fields in SE Asia. I don't think there is one single country that the Cantonese dominate in numbers, but due to the popular culture at the time of HK, Cantonese seems the be the lingua franca of most of SE Asia's Chinese communities.
Correction:
Vietnam is mostly Cantonese, with some Teochew and Hokkien
Thailand is indeed mostly Teochew
Singapore is mostly Hokkien with large numbers of both Teochew and Cantonese, some Hakka and Hainanese
Malaysia is same with Singapore, but there are cities like Kuala Lumpur which is more Cantonese and the lingua franca is Cantonese, while Penang is predominantly Hokkien
Brunei is mostly Hokkien
Philippines is predominantly Hokkien with very little Cantonese
Indonesia is mostly Hokkien with smaller numbers of Teochew, Cantonese, Hakka
Myanmar is mostly from Yunnan (SW Chinese) with many Hokkien and Cantonese

Cantonese used as a lingua franca can be found in cities with high number of Cantonese such as Ho Chi Minh City and Kuala Lumpur. However, Malaysia is shifting to Mandarin.

Chinese in Western countries (US, Canada, Australia, UK, etc.) are predominantly Cantonese
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Old 02-13-2017, 08:01 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,692 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Correction:
Vietnam is mostly Cantonese, with some Teochew and Hokkien
Thailand is indeed mostly Teochew
Singapore is mostly Hokkien with large numbers of both Teochew and Cantonese, some Hakka and Hainanese
Malaysia is same with Singapore, but there are cities like Kuala Lumpur which is more Cantonese and the lingua franca is Cantonese, while Penang is predominantly Hokkien
Brunei is mostly Hokkien
Philippines is predominantly Hokkien with very little Cantonese
Indonesia is mostly Hokkien with smaller numbers of Teochew, Cantonese, Hakka
Myanmar is mostly from Yunnan (SW Chinese) with many Hokkien and Cantonese

Cantonese used as a lingua franca can be found in cities with high number of Cantonese such as Ho Chi Minh City and Kuala Lumpur. However, Malaysia is shifting to Mandarin.

Chinese in Western countries (US, Canada, Australia, UK, etc.) are predominantly Cantonese
Thanks for the correction.


With the Mainland Chinese emigrating, really, most in the West are now Cantonese?
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:51 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,669,089 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Thanks for the correction.


With the Mainland Chinese emigrating, really, most in the West are now Cantonese?
There are lots of mainland Chinese emigrating, but lots of them actually go back after getting a passport.

Most Chinatowns in the West started with the railroad construction. Many of the laborers were from Guangdong, specifically Taishan area. For a while, Taishanese (closely related but not exactly easily intelligible with standard Cantonese as spoken in Guangzhou and Hong Kong) was the lingua franca in these Chinatowns. Gradually, it was supplanted with standard Cantonese, with a big emigration wave prior to the 1997 Hong Kong handover.

Depending whether most mainland Chinese move to the same places and if they will stay, the lingua franca will indeed slowly shift to Mandarin, just like Singapore. There is more Mandarin in Silicon Valley now compared to Cantonese. Aside from mainland Chinese emigration, the shift started due to many Taiwanese in the area. Most are there due to their involvement in the semi-conductor industry.
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