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Old 01-16-2017, 11:09 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,268,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
If you mean something that can be fancier but specific to the US, then you can go in the direction of oysters rockefeller, gumbos, crabcakes and the like since there is a longer tradition of serving fancy versions of those. There's stuff like waldorf salad and lobster newburg and the various other fancy urban dishes from early 20th century, but I can see an argument for those being essentially French.

Since it was done with a brined chicken and dipped in a strongly seasoned batter.

There are different kinds of fried chicken out there.

A lot of dishes, or variants of dishes, that are idiosyncratic to the United States, and become different from that of Europe is through mixture with West African and Native American influences so it's why US fried chicken was notably different though the last several decades of US cultural export means that a lot of areas have absorbed some of that influence into its own.

Have you been to the US before? Did you only eat fast food or go to Chinese restaurants?
do me a favor and ask any American friend you know to give a list of 10, non-snack, non-fast food American dishes (that's not some combination with cuisine elsewhere), and tell us the results.

The idea of American food is something like Israeli food, or Swedish food. You can't say it doesn't exist at all, but it hardly exists as a mature cuisine style. Few people have any idea what they are, and fewer are interested.
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:07 PM
 
501 posts, read 462,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I specifically said the kind of food you can treat your respected guests with. Unless you think what you mentioned will do.
You are moving the goal posts. First you say it doesn't exist, but then admit it exists but doesn't meet your arbitrary standards of "haute cuisine".

I hate to spoil your food superiority complex but for the vast majority of Americans Chinese food is also fast food. Nobody says "I want to go to a fancy restaurant, how about Chinese?" No, fancy is Italian, Japanese, French, or upscale American--Chinese is not something American would typically consider upscale.

Now you can say this is because they don't know much about Chinese food and have a limited exposure to different types of Chinese cuisine to which I would say look in the mirror.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:38 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,154 posts, read 23,676,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
do me a favor and ask any American friend you know to give a list of 10, non-snack, non-fast food American dishes (that's not some combination with cuisine elsewhere), and tell us the results.

The idea of American food is something like Israeli food, or Swedish food. You can't say it doesn't exist at all, but it hardly exists as a mature cuisine style. Few people have any idea what they are, and fewer are interested.
Well, I'm an American friend. So, yea, I don't see what point there is when it's obvious that you don't quite know so much.

The issue is that you personally were unaware but thought that meant other people didn't know. That's not how knowledge works unfortunately.

I kind of get your Israeli food comment as there is a variety of Jewish diaspora cuisines, but hasn't had that much time to cohere as a distinctive cuisine with a selection of regional dishes and Israel became a nation-state in an era when globalization was advancing at a fast pace and its population consisted mostly of very recent immigrants from a small population base.

The Swedish thing is odder. There's certainly a distinct culinary repertoire there that's existed for a while that shares similarities with that of areas next to Sweden. Not sure what you mean by mature, but it does have a long lineage. It's not the most diverse or complex, but it certainly exists as a style that has a long heritage. I really like the variety of fermented, pickled and dried seafood (I like that in pretty much any cuisine that has it). You ever eat Swedish cooking? My experience is mostly with Danish and Norwegian because of people I know, but my guess is that it's pretty similar in a lot of ways.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-16-2017 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,180,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
do me a favor and ask any American friend you know to give a list of 10, non-snack, non-fast food American dishes (that's not some combination with cuisine elsewhere), and tell us the results.
You have to look regionally, it doesn't go nationally....

Different regions has it's stuff...i.e. Louisana cajun, New English clam chowder, Pacific Northwest halibut, mushrooms, etc, southern cooking, soul food, midwest meat and potatoes, etc.

Myself being originally from the Midwest U.S., there are a lot of farms...breadbasket part of the U.S...so you get a lot of beef steaks (a gazillion differents cuts of meat - ribeye steak, etc.), tons of Great Lakes fish (Friday Fish Fry - i.e. Perch, Pike, Smelt - all regional fish from the Great Lakes), tons of fruits and vegetables that originated in the U.S. - i.e. corn, pumpkin pies, maple syrup (I know Canada claims that latter one, but its everywhere in Michigan as well).

In short, each region is absolutely FILLED with regional stuff. But, if you are saying it doesn't go national/international, you'd be 100% correct.

I've yet to meet any Asian person who thought I ate anything beyond hamburgers and pizza.

But, when I grew up in the States, and my particularly boring region of the Upper Midwest, I can assure you it is absolutely rich and filled with local foods, and I'd be filling my gut with beefs, potatoes, beans, peas, corn, on and on....and I'd only eat pizza or burgers about as often as the Chinese students do - i.e. once in a blue moon. Actually I swear some of my Chinese students have eaten McDonalds way more than I ever have in my lifetime. Some of my Chinese student say it is their favorite food, and I have never heard an American ever say that before.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:36 AM
 
Location: In the heights
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I woke up with a fantastic craving for tomato noodle soup.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,361,441 times
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I'm back in my wife's hometown and so far have had four Chinese meals, which got me thinking about this thread. For all the derisive talk about how people have never had "real Chinese food" and thus can't appreciate it, the honest truth is that most people who didn't grow up with "real Chinese food" (as in, home-cooked or simple restaurant fare) would probably walk away leaving 3/4 of the plate untouched.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:39 PM
 
1,011 posts, read 629,395 times
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who really care what Americans consider as fancy food? Americans do not have any idea about culinary culture. Chinese food has so many different cuisines, it will just blow your mind

how can you compare Chinese food with Italian food (Pizza?). French cuisine may be the only cuisine that can rival Chinese, but it is still lacking in its variety. French cuisine may be compared with a particular cuisine of Chinese food

Quote:
Originally Posted by strad View Post
You are moving the goal posts. First you say it doesn't exist, but then admit it exists but doesn't meet your arbitrary standards of "haute cuisine".

I hate to spoil your food superiority complex but for the vast majority of Americans Chinese food is also fast food. Nobody says "I want to go to a fancy restaurant, how about Chinese?" No, fancy is Italian, Japanese, French, or upscale American--Chinese is not something American would typically consider upscale.

Now you can say this is because they don't know much about Chinese food and have a limited exposure to different types of Chinese cuisine to which I would say look in the mirror.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:41 PM
 
1,011 posts, read 629,395 times
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same here. for chinese or most asians, those fancy western foods are just garbage. Cheese smells like horse xxit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I'm back in my wife's hometown and so far have had four Chinese meals, which got me thinking about this thread. For all the derisive talk about how people have never had "real Chinese food" and thus can't appreciate it, the honest truth is that most people who didn't grow up with "real Chinese food" (as in, home-cooked or simple restaurant fare) would probably walk away leaving 3/4 of the plate untouched.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:28 PM
 
501 posts, read 462,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
how can you compare Chinese food with Italian food (Pizza?). French cuisine may be the only cuisine that can rival Chinese, but it is still lacking in its variety. French cuisine may be compared with a particular cuisine of Chinese food
Yes, Italians only eat Pizza, that is the entirety of their cuisine. Thank you for your valuable contributions to this topic.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:38 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,154 posts, read 23,676,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
who really care what Americans consider as fancy food? Americans do not have any idea about culinary culture. Chinese food has so many different cuisines, it will just blow your mind

how can you compare Chinese food with Italian food (Pizza?). French cuisine may be the only cuisine that can rival Chinese, but it is still lacking in its variety. French cuisine may be compared with a particular cuisine of Chinese food
It's weird that you're criticizing an entire massive group of people about not having any idea about culinary culture, but at the same time are explicitly showing how little you actually know of culinary culture. It's very impressive!

strad was talking about the perception of Chinese food in America from a larger sociological perspective, but that doesn't mean he's saying that Chinese food doesn't do fancy or isn't diverse or isn't good--he's making an observation that an uninformed perspective on Chinese food is similar to your perspective on other cuisines which makes for great irony.

Honestly, what's the difference between someone in the US arguing that Chinese cuisine is just msg and soy in an oily brown sauce with stir-fried miscellanea over some rice and someone from China arguing that US cuisine is just fast food burgers, hot dogs, and fries or that Italian cuisine rests on pizza? These are all pretty silly and come from the same place of making large statements about another culture without much experience or knowledge.

The oddest part is that you're not even that aware of Chinese culinary culture and aren't aware of any differences in Hong Kong cuisine versus other Chinese cuisines and you've also somehow never run across a restaurant in China touting itself as serving Hong Kong cuisine. It might just be that regardless of what country you're talking about including your own, your culinary knowledge is pretty limited.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-27-2017 at 06:12 PM..
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