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Old 05-17-2017, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,214 posts, read 2,658,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post
There is a difference between dogs and cats on the one hand and pigs and cows on the other.

Human beings and cats and dogs, but, particularly dogs, formed an important partnership tens of thousands of years ago.

I advocate humane care and treatment of all animals, and I have farmed both pigs and cattle that ultimately ended up on the table as meals.

Pigs are crazy intelligent. But, pigs do not generally help humans (except as ham and bacon) the way dogs and to a lesser extent cats do. When pigs start sacrificing themselves to save/rescue humans I might start looking at them as more than a future meal.
I do not really see a difference. Cows/Ox have been very useful for humans, too, for example in farming, pulling heavy equipment.

What do on the other hand cats are helping humans? I have never seen a cat doing anything useful actually. They can not even defend my home, nor are they used as rescue animals or drug animals. There is no way a cat would sacrify itself to save a human.

On the other hand, I am not sure if a pig would not be able to do so. It is intelligent enough, and it seems that just nobody tried to teach them some useful stuff. For example there are truffle pigs, searching for truffles in the earth. Also, in theory they can be used to detect drugs in cars or houses, they are just not as agile and vivid as a dog, that can quickly jump around a car to find the heroin in the trunk.

The difference people are making between pigs/cows and dogs/cats are pure cutural differences, not logical differences.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Asia
2,773 posts, read 1,127,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
I do not really see a difference. Cows/Ox have been very useful for humans, too, for example in farming, pulling heavy equipment.
Yes. I've acknowledged that, already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
What do on the other hand cats are helping humans? I have never seen a cat doing anything useful actually. They can not even defend my home, nor are they used as rescue animals or drug animals. There is no way a cat would sacrify itself to save a human.
Well, I have stated several times that I am speaking particularly of dogs.

But, cats too have been known to rescue their humans:

Cat saves boy from dog attack in California

Brave Family Cat Saves 5-Year-Old Boy From Bullies

Cat saves family from carbon monoxide poisoning

Cat saves family from fire by biting owner’s arm

Experience: my cat saved me from a fire

Family saved from devastating house fire by Simba the cat who woke them up


Hero Cat Saves Family From Fire


Hero cat rescues baby dumped in street by climbing in box to keep it warm in freezing conditions


Cat saves Houston-area woman from pit bull attack


Cat Tries To Save Owner From Attempted Theft

Google and you will find scores of similar stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
On the other hand, I am not sure if a pig would not be able to do so. It is intelligent enough, and it seems that just nobody tried to teach them some useful stuff. For example there are truffle pigs, searching for truffles in the earth. Also, in theory they can be used to detect drugs in cars or houses, they are just not as agile and vivid as a dog, that can quickly jump around a car to find the heroin in the trunk.
Pigs are very smart. And a quick Google will result in some stories of pet pigs saving their owners.

However, these incidents are far more rare than instances of dogs and even cats saving their people. You may be on to something, thinking that perhaps they just need to be taught. I don't know. I raised pigs and they never impressed me with caring for me like a dog or even a cat might.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
The difference people are making between pigs/cows and dogs/cats are pure cutural differences, not logical differences.
I think its more than pure cultural reasons. There is no denying that cats and dogs can and for thousands of years have bonded with humans. It may be possible for pigs to bond in a similar way. But, we do not have thousands of years of experience with pigs other than as a food source.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,214 posts, read 2,658,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post

Pigs are very smart. And a quick Google will result in some stories of pet pigs saving their owners.

However, these incidents are far more rare than instances of dogs and even cats saving their people. You may be on to something, thinking that perhaps they just need to be taught. I don't know. I raised pigs and they never impressed me with caring for me like a dog or even a cat might.

I think its more than pure cultural reasons. There is no denying that cats and dogs can and for thousands of years have bonded with humans. It may be possible for pigs to bond in a similar way. But, we do not have thousands of years of experience with pigs other than as a food source.
Of course instances of dogs and cats saving people are more common than similar stories about pigs, who the hell has a wild pig running around the neighborhood, that could defend playing children from dogs?

That is basically what I mean with culture. Many cultures have a common history with cats and dogs, others may not have. For some cultures, cows are holy, for others some other animals may be. It is just how we learned it.

However, I think the main reason that people are not eating dogs and cats in bigger numbers worldwide is that they just don't taste that good and there are better alternatives to raise animals that are relatively peaceful and consume relatively cheap food (crops). As for many predators, cat or dog meat is not very delicious and they consume meat as their main food source. If we anyways had that much meat, we don't need to raise them for meat production, unless they are much more delicious than any other kind of meat.

What I hate to see is people slaughtering wild animal for no reasons, such as sharks, turtles, dolphins... but if they are raised for meat production I do not care if its a dog or a pig.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Asia
2,773 posts, read 1,127,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
Of course instances of dogs and cats saving people are more common than similar stories about pigs, who the hell has a wild pig running around the neighborhood, that could defend playing children from dogs?
The Chinese have been raising pigs for a looooong time.



The character 家 (jia) first appeared over 3,000 years ago on Shang Dynasty (c.16th century-11th century BC) bronzes. At that time, it was just a drawing that depicted a house with a pig inside it.


And yet, the Chinese and pigs, despite commonly living in such close proximity for such a long time, never developed the bond that other humans and dogs developed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
What I hate to see is people slaughtering wild animal for no reasons, such as sharks, turtles, dolphins...
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
...but if they are raised for meat production I do not care if its a dog or a pig.
Disagree.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:16 AM
 
9,813 posts, read 13,656,164 times
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What makes cats & dogs more important that other animals though? I get that people are up in arms b/c people have dogs & cats as pets and in other countries, people eat them... but in other parts of the world, people have cows, pigs, all kinds of other animals as pets... so why is it ok for us to eat those animals but the Asians can't eat ours?


Americans have guinea pigs as pets but Peruvians eat them? So guinea pig is ok to eat but cat & dog are not?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:35 AM
 
2,469 posts, read 1,662,652 times
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The first...after Hong Kong?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:58 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,412,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
Of course instances of dogs and cats saving people are more common than similar stories about pigs, who the hell has a wild pig running around the neighborhood, that could defend playing children from dogs?

That is basically what I mean with culture. Many cultures have a common history with cats and dogs, others may not have. For some cultures, cows are holy, for others some other animals may be. It is just how we learned it.

However, I think the main reason that people are not eating dogs and cats in bigger numbers worldwide is that they just don't taste that good and there are better alternatives to raise animals that are relatively peaceful and consume relatively cheap food (crops). As for many predators, cat or dog meat is not very delicious and they consume meat as their main food source. If we anyways had that much meat, we don't need to raise them for meat production, unless they are much more delicious than any other kind of meat.

What I hate to see is people slaughtering wild animal for no reasons, such as sharks, turtles, dolphins... but if they are raised for meat production I do not care if its a dog or a pig.
yep.

Humans do not really eat that many dogs because they don't provide enough protein. Cats probably taste horrible.

People have the right to be against eating any sort of animial, but don't make it a morality thing. It is cultural.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:01 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,412,408 times
Reputation: 7592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post

Pigs are very smart. And a quick Google will result in some stories of pet pigs saving their owners.
Don't think there is a reason: humans rarely train a pig to do anything. Even the smartest dogs need to be trained.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:58 AM
 
5,250 posts, read 4,725,577 times
Reputation: 1602
No thoughts about how cultural bias could lead to neglect over exploring the theory that animal domestication actually started with eating dogs & cats which may be why they are so ubiquitous in so many societies, even those that have now frown on such practices?

Last edited by kovert; 08-20-2019 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:06 PM
 
5,250 posts, read 4,725,577 times
Reputation: 1602
More food for thought (no pun intended).

Quote:
Would you eat rabbit? Even those who regularly consume meat from chickens, sheep and pigs will often balk at the thought of eating a cuddly little bunny rabbit. But what’s the difference? Why do we see some animals as furry friends and others as fair game to chop up and eat?

Yes, dogs are smart and friendly – but so are pigs. Researchers from Cambridge University found pigs are as smart as three-year-old humans. They can play computer games and recognise people they met several years ago. They develop trust and empathy like we, and dogs, do. Few people relish the thought of any animals being slaughtered so it’s normal for those who eat meat to try to justify it. Just as westerners get angry about people in Asia eating dogs and cats, many Indians get outraged by westerners eating cows. People shake their heads in disbelief at guinea pigs and alpacas being served up in South America.

The Guardian: Offended by Koreans eating dog? I trust you’ve never had a bacon butty
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