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Old 06-15-2017, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,214 posts, read 2,635,172 times
Reputation: 2090

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
how can you tell TW is country? Even half of Taiwanese do not believe TW is an independant country.
you must know better than all the heads of states as they all believe TW is not a country. Even Trump admits to the one china principle
He doesn't. But he just doesn't want to deal with any stubborn and sulky Chinese over that issue and does not want any negative consequence for America. So do all the other country leaders. If PRC would not tell other countries "its either them or us", the countries would react differently. If it would be me, I would tell PRC that we do not wish any involvement in our decisions and if we want to recognize ROC, we will do so, regardless if they are pissed or not. Just politicians usually don't have any guts these days.

And it is not true that half of Taiwanese do not believe TW is an independant country. They just put economic matters and political stability over independence in their priority list, because the yellow dragon keeps frightening them.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:13 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,744 posts, read 10,642,419 times
Reputation: 19941
I am reopening this thread. Please treat each other's opinions with respect and keep the discussion about the topic, not each other.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Arkansas & subforums, Asia, Kentucky & subforums, Military Life, and P&OC

Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-16-2017 at 07:38 AM..
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:23 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,276,120 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Oh so the rogue nation that has been constantly threatening this and that, forcing their expansionism on us, is now being pushed into a corner, while we are the one being nationalistic and unreasonable here? By what kind of possible logic could a country that claims another country to be theirs be the victim here, whereas the one constantly bullied and humiliated be called unnecessarily nationalistic? In what ways has she exercised this "stupid nationalism"? Or rather, in what ways have Taiwanese people displayed this "stupid nationalism" you're referencing?

Moderator cut: personal attack
cool down, boy.

I despise nationalism in any situation, that includes china as well. in china, many can't wait to "conquer TW by force", which I think is a retarded idea too.

You are aware that I have no objection to TW's independence. The nationalism I refer to is the sentiment among many Taiwanese (including yourself) that TW has little to do with China, that they are completely two different two countries, cultures and mindsets. There are many people out of spite for China (often for a good reason) who pretend TW's history and culture doesn't and shouldn't have anything to do with China, do not want to talk about it as if "We Taiwanese are compleletely different from you Chinese". They pretend anything to do with PRC is beneath them.

This is what I call stupid nationalism and it will never work. Also, the fact is TW has very little chance of being a real independent country. LIke in many other cases (such as the state of Palestine), it is still some big powers that call the shot.

China doesn't like Tsai's anti-China stance and therefore tactically chose to squeeze its space of diplomacy to humiliate her, and will use economic measures to pressure her until she is voted out.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:25 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,276,120 times
Reputation: 7586
I think people should refrain from arguing about "is TW a country?". We know nobody will change his opinion so what's the point.

The post is about TW's diplomatic difficulty and what it means, not "whether I support TW's independence". Why can't we grow up. TW would be an indepedent country if the UN recognizes it. Unfair but that's how it goes.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:37 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,744 posts, read 10,642,419 times
Reputation: 19941
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I think people should refrain from arguing about "is TW a country?". We know nobody will change his opinion so what's the point.

The post is about TW's diplomatic difficulty and what it means, not "whether I support TW's independence". Why can't we grow up. TW would be an indepedent country if the UN recognizes it. Unfair but that's how it goes.
As moderator, I agree. Any future posts that debate whether or not Taiwan is a country will be deleted in their entirety, regardless of what else the post says. If individuals persist in continuing to post about it they risk receiving an infraction.

And, again, please respond to each other civilly and respectfully.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Arkansas & subforums, Asia, Kentucky & subforums, Military Life, and P&OC
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Mendocino, CA
858 posts, read 555,123 times
Reputation: 561
To use a Chinese saying: The monkey king cannot escape the palm of the Buddha. The most ideal result for China is to peacefully unify with Taiwan; it is only for that purpose that unification is dragging on. If China did not care about that any more, China can take Taiwan in about 3-5 days.

It does not help either, that the current leader is not competent.

Life will go on.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,368 posts, read 550,220 times
Reputation: 1108
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhbj03 View Post
To use a Chinese saying: The monkey king cannot escape the palm of the Buddha. The most ideal result for China is to peacefully unify with Taiwan; it is only for that purpose that unification is dragging on. If China did not care about that any more, China can take Taiwan in about 3-5 days.

It does not help either, that the current leader is not competent.

Life will go on.

It is easy to be an armchair strategist. But in reality, China cannot even retake the tiny undefended disputed Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands from Japan.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:59 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 630,177 times
Reputation: 283
you know the US has the defense treaty with Japan right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
It is easy to be an armchair strategist. But in reality, China cannot even retake the tiny undefended disputed Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands from Japan.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,368 posts, read 550,220 times
Reputation: 1108
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
you know the US has the defense treaty with Japan right?
US has mutual defense treaty with Japan. But it did not deter South Korea from occupying the disputed Dokdo/Takeshima Island.

And of course it did not deter Russia from occupying the four Kuril islands which are indisputably Japanese territories.
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Old 06-22-2017, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,806 posts, read 810,785 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Ok. I understand that is the official position of China and many Chinese believe that, but it's not reality. Taiwan is self governing and the only way I see it truly becoming a province again is through an invasion and then occupation by China. I don't see that happening either.
The current government of Taiwan is Republic of China, and the only province in the Republic of China is Taiwan.

Yes, Taiwan(ROC) is self governing and China(PRC) isn't trying to occupy Taiwan. But when it comes to disputed territory, nobody is willing to compromise. Suppose you are the president of China, formally giving up Taiwan is going to be a political suicide. What will you do? Just pretend that someday you'll get Taiwan back and maintain the status quo.

Yes, everyone knows it's not going to happen, including every Chinese politician. You are not alone in seeing the obvious.

Similarly, Japan can't give up its claim on the disputed territory occupied by Russia. But do you see Japan attempting to get it by force? No, there's nothing they can do.
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