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Old 06-22-2017, 10:21 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,276,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
The current government of Taiwan is Republic of China, and the only province in the Republic of China is Taiwan.
Not true. Taiwan also kinmen and Mastus as part of FUjian province under the ROC. Nominally ROC has two provinces.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:13 PM
 
1,011 posts, read 630,177 times
Reputation: 283
you are comparing Japan vs Russia and China vs TW? China has 50 times the population,
20 times the GDP and is capable of occupying TW in 24 hours. What a stupid comparison.
It is a safe bet that China will unite TW within 20 years, either by force or other measures

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
The current government of Taiwan is Republic of China, and the only province in the Republic of China is Taiwan.

Yes, Taiwan(ROC) is self governing and China(PRC) isn't trying to occupy Taiwan. But when it comes to disputed territory, nobody is willing to compromise. Suppose you are the president of China, formally giving up Taiwan is going to be a political suicide. What will you do? Just pretend that someday you'll get Taiwan back and maintain the status quo.

Yes, everyone knows it's not going to happen, including every Chinese politician. You are not alone in seeing the obvious.

Similarly, Japan can't give up its claim on the disputed territory occupied by Russia. But do you see Japan attempting to get it by force? No, there's nothing they can do.
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,806 posts, read 810,785 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
you are comparing Japan vs Russia and China vs TW? China has 50 times the population,
20 times the GDP and is capable of occupying TW in 24 hours. What a stupid comparison.
It is a safe bet that China will unite TW within 20 years, either by force or other measures
It's not going to happen, period.

A self governing political entity has no incentive to be annexed. Many Taiwanese citizens are more than happy to be join Japan or the U.S by annexation. But clearly the ruling class in Taiwan don't want to give up their power. That's why a peaceful unification is completely impossible.

It's not possible by force either. Even based on the most optimistic projection, China won't be a developed country after 20 or even 40 years. Unless China becomes the global power, taking Taiwan by force isn't doable. It's obvious that China won't become the global power in 21st century.

Honestly I think giving up Taiwan is good for China. President Trump made it very clear, China has to pay a good price in exchange for favorable US policy on Taiwan. Letting Taiwan go eases the burden, there won't be any need to compromise on trade. However, no leadership wants to be responsible for losing Taiwan. That's why the status quo isn't likely to change in the decades to come.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:54 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 630,177 times
Reputation: 283
China is already a super power. no debate about that. Who in the world except US can rival China's might,
both economically or militarily

What is the differenct between TW and HK? CHINA can easily take over HK,
the same is for TW

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
It's not going to happen, period.

A self governing political entity has no incentive to be annexed. Many Taiwanese citizens are more than happy to be join Japan or the U.S by annexation. But clearly the ruling class in Taiwan don't want to give up their power. That's why a peaceful unification is completely impossible.

It's not possible by force either. Even based on the most optimistic projection, China won't be a developed country after 20 or even 40 years. Unless China becomes the global power, taking Taiwan by force isn't doable. It's obvious that China won't become the global power in 21st century.

Honestly I think giving up Taiwan is good for China. President Trump made it very clear, China has to pay a good price in exchange for favorable US policy on Taiwan. Letting Taiwan go eases the burden, there won't be any need to compromise on trade. However, no leadership wants to be responsible for losing Taiwan. That's why the status quo isn't likely to change in the decades to come.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,806 posts, read 810,785 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
China is already a super power. no debate about that. Who in the world except US can rival China's might,
both economically or militarily

What is the differenct between TW and HK? CHINA can easily take over HK,
the same is for TW
Hong Kong was never self governing.

In fact, 1997 was the end of the lease and Britain was supposed to give it back to China.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:11 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,276,120 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
It's not going to happen, period.

A self governing political entity has no incentive to be annexed. Many Taiwanese citizens are more than happy to be join Japan or the U.S by annexation. But clearly the ruling class in Taiwan don't want to give up their power. That's why a peaceful unification is completely impossible.

It's not possible by force either. Even based on the most optimistic projection, China won't be a developed country after 20 or even 40 years. Unless China becomes the global power, taking Taiwan by force isn't doable. It's obvious that China won't become the global power in 21st century.

Honestly I think giving up Taiwan is good for China. President Trump made it very clear, China has to pay a good price in exchange for favorable US policy on Taiwan. Letting Taiwan go eases the burden, there won't be any need to compromise on trade. However, no leadership wants to be responsible for losing Taiwan. That's why the status quo isn't likely to change in the decades to come.
Join Japan or the US, where does this BS come from? So TW becomes all nationalist about being Taiwanese and not Chinese, yet are willingly becoming Japanese or Americans which have completed different culture, history and language? That's absurd. Some crazy Taiwanese might want to be Japanese, but that's the minority.

21st has 83 years left. You are too early to predict. Just think about what China achieved in the past 20 years, and how much the US had grown.

The Chinese government will not give up TW, period, unless China collapses completedly. What president Trump made clear is irrelevant, how long do you think he will stay in power? Compromise to trade? Both countries will have equal to lose if there were a trade war and the big companies in the US won't allow it. But I agree the status quo will remain for decades but TW won't go independent anytime in our lifetime. I am saying it again, if there is one thing China will want to go a full fledged war for regardless the consequences, that's the Taiwan independence.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,806 posts, read 810,785 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Join Japan or the US, where does this BS come from? So TW becomes all nationalist about being Taiwanese and not Chinese, yet are willingly becoming Japanese or Americans which have completed different culture, history and language? That's absurd. Some crazy Taiwanese might want to be Japanese, but that's the minority.

21st has 83 years left. You are too early to predict. Just think about what China achieved in the past 20 years, and how much the US had grown.

The Chinese government will not give up TW, period, unless China collapses completedly. What president Trump made clear is irrelevant, how long do you think he will stay in power? Compromise to trade? Both countries will have equal to lose if there were a trade war and the big companies in the US won't allow it. But I agree the status quo will remain for decades but TW won't go independent anytime in our lifetime. I am saying it again, if there is one thing China will want to go a full fledged war for regardless the consequences, that's the Taiwan independence.
Taiwan was a former colony of Japan and the majority of Taiwanese are very fond of Japanese culture.

American culture is considered superior in Taiwan. They would be happy to be the 51st state. Unfortunately, the US doesn't want them. Another twenty million Asians? No way.

If you believe they are nationalist, you seem to suggest that Taiwan is a nation, which contradicts your belief, lol.

The ruling class doesn't want their powe taken away, that's why the propaganda trys to make Taiwanese believe they are an independent nation with their own identity. It's the ruling class that wants independence. For normal folks, it's better to be annexed to an affluent country like Japan or the US. I can't tell which country they like better, though.

Unfortunately, most normal folks are not intelligent enough to figure out that they have been manipulated by the ruling class under the name of patriotism. I am not talking about Taiwan only, I'm taking about every country, from Taiwan independence to America first to anti Japanese sentiment in China. The nationalists in every country are the least intelligent population. The difference is, Make America Great Again is mocked in the US, whereas Taiwan embraces nationalism without hesitation.
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Old 06-24-2017, 11:58 AM
 
8,060 posts, read 7,318,532 times
Reputation: 6426
DID BEIJING JUST GAIN PANAMA AND LOSE TAIPEI?
The Republic of China is now officially recognised by only 19 nations, but it’s “unofficial” ties with major global players that really matter

BY CARY HUANG

Did Beijing just gain Panama and lose Taipei? | This Week In Asia | South China Morning Post

In practical terms, the abandonment is just a symbolic blow. Taipei has little to lose materially or economically from Panama. The Central American country accounts for only 0.04 per cent of Taiwan’s exports.

But in practical terms, Taipei’s diplomacy and national security is more dependent on “unofficial ties” with major regional and global players such as Europe, Japan and the United States – especially the US in terms of military protection.
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:09 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,645,130 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Taiwan was a former colony of Japan and the majority of Taiwanese are very fond of Japanese culture.

American culture is considered superior in Taiwan. They would be happy to be the 51st state. Unfortunately, the US doesn't want them. Another twenty million Asians? No way.

If you believe they are nationalist, you seem to suggest that Taiwan is a nation, which contradicts your belief, lol.

The ruling class doesn't want their powe taken away, that's why the propaganda trys to make Taiwanese believe they are an independent nation with their own identity. It's the ruling class that wants independence. For normal folks, it's better to be annexed to an affluent country like Japan or the US. I can't tell which country they like better, though.

Unfortunately, most normal folks are not intelligent enough to figure out that they have been manipulated by the ruling class under the name of patriotism. I am not talking about Taiwan only, I'm taking about every country, from Taiwan independence to America first to anti Japanese sentiment in China. The nationalists in every country are the least intelligent population. The difference is, Make America Great Again is mocked in the US, whereas Taiwan embraces nationalism without hesitation.
Please leave out the nonsense, that's what's going to get this thread locked and this is actually a really interesting thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
DID BEIJING JUST GAIN PANAMA AND LOSE TAIPEI?
The Republic of China is now officially recognised by only 19 nations, but it’s “unofficial” ties with major global players that really matter

BY CARY HUANG

Did Beijing just gain Panama and lose Taipei? | This Week In Asia | South China Morning Post

In practical terms, the abandonment is just a symbolic blow. Taipei has little to lose materially or economically from Panama. The Central American country accounts for only 0.04 per cent of Taiwan’s exports.

But in practical terms, Taipei’s diplomacy and national security is more dependent on “unofficial ties” with major regional and global players such as Europe, Japan and the United States – especially the US in terms of military protection.
Exactly, even China's closest "allies" have trade missions in Taiwan. They always call it unofficial ties, but many countries send government delegations to Taiwan.
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,806 posts, read 810,785 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
DID BEIJING JUST GAIN PANAMA AND LOSE TAIPEI?
The Republic of China is now officially recognised by only 19 nations, but it’s “unofficial” ties with major global players that really matter

BY CARY HUANG

Did Beijing just gain Panama and lose Taipei? | This Week In Asia | South China Morning Post

In practical terms, the abandonment is just a symbolic blow. Taipei has little to lose materially or economically from Panama. The Central American country accounts for only 0.04 per cent of Taiwan’s exports.

But in practical terms, Taipei’s diplomacy and national security is more dependent on “unofficial ties” with major regional and global players such as Europe, Japan and the United States – especially the US in terms of military protection.
Yes, Taiwan is doing well with the unofficial ties with major countries, I mean, practically every major country.

Beijing definitely understand that too.

The only issue is that the current leadership in Taiwan isn't content with the status quo, they want the official diplomatical relations with Panama. The president of Taiwan was very disappointed, because she cared about it. Things would be ten times easier if she's cool with just the practical terms.
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