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Old 06-24-2017, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,809 posts, read 813,445 times
Reputation: 1855

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Please leave out the nonsense, that's what's going to get this thread locked and this is actually a really interesting thread.



Exactly, even China's closest "allies" have trade missions in Taiwan. They always call it unofficial ties, but many countries send government delegations to Taiwan.
Sorry if the sophistication of my post overwhelms you. But you were not my intended audience, I was replying to botticelli. He is from China, born and raised, he has the adequate knowledge to know what I'm talking about. It's an advanced topic reserved for Chinese who are politically savvy, not for a westerner who only has a cursory understanding of Asia.

In case you are curious, you can always google. Taiwan Civil Government

When it comes to trade, China is one of the biggest partners with Taiwan.Yes, Taiwan has all the unofficial ties to do everything they need in practical terms. This is exactly why outsiders cannot understand why Taiwan wants more when it already has nearly everything.

On the other hand, China(PRC) had been doing business with Panama for decades before establishing official ties. Th unofficial ties work for everybody, trade is more important the politics these days.
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:29 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,286,480 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Taiwan was a former colony of Japan and the majority of Taiwanese are very fond of Japanese culture.

American culture is considered superior in Taiwan. They would be happy to be the 51st state. Unfortunately, the US doesn't want them. Another twenty million Asians? No way.

If you believe they are nationalist, you seem to suggest that Taiwan is a nation, which contradicts your belief, lol.

The ruling class doesn't want their powe taken away, that's why the propaganda trys to make Taiwanese believe they are an independent nation with their own identity. It's the ruling class that wants independence. For normal folks, it's better to be annexed to an affluent country like Japan or the US. I can't tell which country they like better, though.

Unfortunately, most normal folks are not intelligent enough to figure out that they have been manipulated by the ruling class under the name of patriotism. I am not talking about Taiwan only, I'm taking about every country, from Taiwan independence to America first to anti Japanese sentiment in China. The nationalists in every country are the least intelligent population. The difference is, Make America Great Again is mocked in the US, whereas Taiwan embraces nationalism without hesitation.
You don't seem to have an iota understanding of Taiwan. I will ignore such nonsense.
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:55 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,649,012 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Sorry if the sophistication of my post overwhelms you. But you were not my intended audience, I was replying to botticelli. He is from China, born and raised, he has the adequate knowledge to know what I'm talking about. It's an advanced topic reserved for Chinese who are politically savvy, not for a westerner who only has a cursory understanding of Asia.

In case you are curious, you can always google. Taiwan Civil Government

When it comes to trade, China is one of the biggest partners with Taiwan.Yes, Taiwan has all the unofficial ties to do everything they need in practical terms. This is exactly why outsiders cannot understand why Taiwan wants more when it already has nearly everything.

On the other hand, China(PRC) had been doing business with Panama for decades before establishing official ties. Th unofficial ties work for everybody, trade is more important the politics these days.
This not a political forum and the moderator just said not to make it political. You're getting pretty close to my block list with your attitude and constant petty attacks. The same as the other thread when you said I was "all wrong," but then you agreed with everything in the end minus the one point I said was a bad example. Don't be a jerk just be a jerk, if you disagree with something, say why and it can be debated. I don't pretend to know everything and it makes these forums a lot easier and more fun to use when you're willing to learn new things.
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,809 posts, read 813,445 times
Reputation: 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
This not a political forum and the moderator just said not to make it political. You're getting pretty close to my block list with your attitude and constant petty attacks. The same as the other thread when you said I was "all wrong," but then you agreed with everything in the end minus the one point I said was a bad example. Don't be a jerk just be a jerk, if you disagree with something, say why and it can be debated. I don't pretend to know everything and it makes these forums a lot easier and more fun to use when you're willing to learn new things.
Please add me to your block list if it makes you feel better. You seem to have a hard time learning from someone far more knowledgeable. You are not all wrong, you are half wrong. Without understanding of Chinese culture and historical context, just touring six provinces doesn't make you an expert.

This thread is political by nature, there's no way to get around politics in the discussion of diplomatic relationships.
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,780 posts, read 5,137,786 times
Reputation: 4574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Please leave out the nonsense, that's what's going to get this thread locked and this is actually a really interesting thread.
First of all, having a bunch of foreigners speaking on behalf of us is not interesting, but whatever, I don't give a **** any more.

Secondly, what makes you think that people aren't interested in joining America or Japan? Japan might be a bit tricky as there are some loud morons who actively dislike Japan, and Japan is not exactly considered a significant improvement in lots of aspects, but you'd be surprised by how many people want to become American. You don't hear this a lot because it's not realistic, but if the option was available, it'd be lots of people's wet dream. I for one wouldn't mind a status like Guam or Puerto Rico, it'd be way better than the current situation and practically heaven in relation to the alternative, aka Hong Kong.
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Old 06-25-2017, 11:02 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,286,480 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
First of all, having a bunch of foreigners speaking on behalf of us is not interesting, but whatever, I don't give a **** any more.

Secondly, what makes you think that people aren't interested in joining America or Japan? Japan might be a bit tricky as there are some loud morons who actively like Japan, and Japan is not exactly considered a significant improvement in lots of aspects, but you'd be surprised by how many people want to become American. You don't hear this a lot because it's not realistic, but if the option was available, it'd be lots of people's wet dream. I for one wouldn't mind a status like Guam or Puerto Rico, it'd be way better than the current situation and practically heaven in relation to the alternative, aka Hong Kong.
there, corrected for you.

A bunch of foreigners can't speak for you, and you think your opinion somehow represents Taiwan?

Bottom line: even if 100% Taiwanese want to join Japan/US, Japan won't dare accept it, the US won't dare accept it. It is not just unrealistic, it is an utterly stupid idea. Have a referendum in TW it won't pass, nor it will pass in Japan/US. Zero chance.

Of course a lot of people don't mind being Americans. Same for the Philippines, or even many Chinese or even Canadians. So? Wet dreams are still wet dream, TW is not any special.

TW will stay where it is for a long time. It is not going to be conquered by forced but it is not going anyway either.

Last edited by botticelli; 06-25-2017 at 11:10 PM..
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:04 AM
 
10 posts, read 3,117 times
Reputation: 12
Taiwan used to give out the low-interested loans; or even free money to the difficult countries for their international relationships. One day, they found out SOPs didn't work.

"The world is broken! The world is not fair!", Taiwanese shouted.

I really lost patients for these idoltary people. They were the true children of their idols-worshipping grand parents.

Last edited by custmerialname; 06-26-2017 at 12:14 AM.. Reason: idols-worshipping
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,780 posts, read 5,137,786 times
Reputation: 4574
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
there, corrected for you.

A bunch of foreigners can't speak for you, and you think your opinion somehow represents Taiwan?

Bottom line: even if 100% Taiwanese want to join Japan/US, Japan won't dare accept it, the US won't dare accept it. It is not just unrealistic, it is an utterly stupid idea. Have a referendum in TW it won't pass, nor it will pass in Japan/US. Zero chance.

Of course a lot of people don't mind being Americans. Same for the Philippines, or even many Chinese or even Canadians. So? Wet dreams are still wet dream, TW is not any special.

TW will stay where it is for a long time. It is not going to be conquered by forced but it is not going anyway either.
I certainly am more representative than a bunch of foreigners who have never been here yet have no problem to pose as experts.

And your rant is pointless. It was based on a hypothetical premise at the very beginning. This is not about whether Japan or America would want to take the deal, that's another issue, it's about what people might like. What GoodHombre said is true. People here do consider the US and Japan to be vastly superior (which is largely correct), yet some foreigners here seem to claim that they know the situation better, which is pretty retarded, to say the least.

Last edited by Greysholic; 06-26-2017 at 12:15 AM..
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,780 posts, read 5,137,786 times
Reputation: 4574
Quote:
Originally Posted by custmerialname View Post
I really lost patients for these idoltary people.
You didn't lose the doctors then. You might want to call some of those for whichever lobe of the brain that is in charge of the spelling and vocabulary department.
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:56 PM
 
10 posts, read 3,117 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
You didn't lose the doctors then. You might want to call some of those for whichever lobe of the brain that is in charge of the spelling and vocabulary department.
To live in a volatile country, being correct is not right. I live in Taipei, Taiwan. I know my story. Ed: The doctors are just the tools for the politicians.
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