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Old 06-27-2017, 06:53 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,634,969 times
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You all should watch some videos of angora rabbits getting their fur ripped off their bodies while they're strapped down, or dogs getting bludgeoned to death so that their meat taste more "fragrant." All this crap happens in China and the country is famous for being one that cares very little about animal welfare, given its age long history of its own cruelty toward its own people, dire poverty and underdevelopment. You can't really expect a people who are culturally unevolved to understand animal rights or even basic compassion. The Confucian idea of compassion is long lost, even as the current government tries to use Confucianism to support its attempt to maintain social stability (read maintain its own power). The Buddhist ideal of compassion is long forgotten by the Chinese too. You really can't expect much from the Chinese at this point because they are decades, if not centuries behind in their cultural and civic understanding. The only thing to do is to try to cordon off the worst effects of Chinese accesses, like making sure wild animals are not smuggled into China for weird traditional medicines etc (pangolins, rhino horns tusks etc). The animals of China are a very sad and unfortunate lot. It's a horrible fate to be born in China, as an animal or a poor or crippled child. The Chinese are just not capable of understanding the ideals of compassion and kindness at this point. There are just too many ignorant and ugly people around. The few who are kind and caring get completely drown out by the unwashed masses. It'll be a long long time before the Chinese masses even come close to being modern and civilized in their thinking. There is no sense in arguing because if you have to argue with someone about cruelty, then you're not really communicating with someone who is at the same plane of existence as you are. The idea of compassion is too foreign to them, which is really sad.

 
Old 06-27-2017, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,214 posts, read 2,640,478 times
Reputation: 2090
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
You all should watch some videos of angora rabbits getting their fur ripped off their bodies while they're strapped down, or dogs getting bludgeoned to death so that their meat taste more "fragrant." All this crap happens in China and the country is famous for being one that cares very little about animal welfare, given its age long history of its own cruelty toward its own people, dire poverty and underdevelopment. You can't really expect a people who are culturally unevolved to understand animal rights or even basic compassion. The Confucian idea of compassion is long lost, even as the current government tries to use Confucianism to support its attempt to maintain social stability (read maintain its own power). The Buddhist ideal of compassion is long forgotten by the Chinese too. You really can't expect much from the Chinese at this point because they are decades, if not centuries behind in their cultural and civic understanding. The only thing to do is to try to cordon off the worst effects of Chinese accesses, like making sure wild animals are not smuggled into China for weird traditional medicines etc (pangolins, rhino horns tusks etc). The animals of China are a very sad and unfortunate lot. It's a horrible fate to be born in China, as an animal or a poor or crippled child. The Chinese are just not capable of understanding the ideals of compassion and kindness at this point. There are just too many ignorant and ugly people around. The few who are kind and caring get completely drown out by the unwashed masses. It'll be a long long time before the Chinese masses even come close to being modern and civilized in their thinking. There is no sense in arguing because if you have to argue with someone about cruelty, then you're not really communicating with someone who is at the same plane of existence as you are. The idea of compassion is too foreign to them, which is really sad.
I do not disagree with what you say and you are outlining a huge problem of animal abuse in China and other countries. Those people have really little sense for ethics, empathy and compassion what we would bascially define as "civilization".

However, what we are discussing about primairly is the fact that dogs are eaten there. This is not really wrong, as a dog is just an animal as any other and can be used for food production, even though I do not like dog meat and find dogs smelly and due to their nutrition they cannnot really be delicious. A dog is just an animal as a pig, a cow, a rabbit or any other animal that people may eat.

Given the point that dogs can be eaten as any other animal, of course they should be treated respectful, not abused and hurted, neither should that happen to any other animal.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 09:33 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,305,979 times
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Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
I do not disagree with what you say and you are outlining a huge problem of animal abuse in China and other countries. Those people have really little sense for ethics, empathy and compassion what we would bascially define as "civilization".

However, what we are discussing about primairly is the fact that dogs are eaten there. This is not really wrong, as a dog is just an animal as any other and can be used for food production, even though I do not like dog meat and find dogs smelly and due to their nutrition they cannnot really be delicious. A dog is just an animal as a pig, a cow, a rabbit or any other animal that people may eat.

Given the point that dogs can be eaten as any other animal, of course they should be treated respectful, not abused and hurted, neither should that happen to any other animal.
never mind her. Every time we talk about dog eating, she changes the subject to animal cruelty as if there were exactly the same thing.

A dog is an animal than can be eaten and there is nothing morally wrong with that. End of story. One can choose not to eat it, but others don't give a sh6t.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 10:04 AM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,266,818 times
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The issue is never about whether they eat dogs. It is about stopping brually killing dogs in a painful and bloody way out in the open to all the public to see.

I support Chinese people's right to continue eating dogs (or any animals they like), just in a humane way.
If that is what you truly think than you miss part of the issue you really don't do the image of Chinese people any good by defending the eating of dogs as much as you do. You actually worsen it in my opinion.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 11:14 AM
 
2,443 posts, read 1,627,496 times
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It's not just China, England's best friend India has similar tradition and also Switzerland. Don't forget how horses are treated i n France and Italy.

To be fair the only places really friendly to animals are Eastern Europe, the Arabic world, Israel and Japan.

Anywhere else you'd find very weird cuisine.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,214 posts, read 2,640,478 times
Reputation: 2090
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
If that is what you truly think than you miss part of the issue you really don't do the image of Chinese people any good by defending the eating of dogs as much as you do. You actually worsen it in my opinion.
Nobody needs to defend eating dogs. It's just not our business what kind of animal people of other countries may eat, as long as doing so doesn't mean any hygienic or health threat to us (as for example eating bushmeat does). Of course I wonder why people like eating dogs, after trying several times in Korea and China I actually see no reason to do so, if there is enough supply of other animals. A good beef steak is much much better than a dog, and not necessairly more expensive these days.

But I still remember my grandparents told me during WW2 they had to eat any meat that might have been avaliable, sometimes it was a dog, sometimes it was a cat. It may be a relict of times when the country was poor and few other meats were available. However, dog is not unhealthy, it is supposed to be good from its nutritional value.

It's not like in American industrial meat farms the pigs and cows are happily running around the green grass whole day. Certainly we are not a good role model when it comes to animal cruelty, even though we are far far ahead of China.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:17 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,634,969 times
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
never mind her. Every time we talk about dog eating, she changes the subject to animal cruelty as if there were exactly the same thing.

A dog is an animal than can be eaten and there is nothing morally wrong with that. End of story. One can choose not to eat it, but others don't give a sh6t.
I am sorry to bust your Chinese bubble, but in China, the art of cooking a dog is a brutal affair. And for your information, I have not mention anything about the act of eating dogs, I am referencing the cruelty involved in the beating of dogs for flavor, and the way they are generally kept on their way to the table. You are the one who is always confusing the topic to the question of whether dogs should be eaten. Cruelty seems an innate Chinese character that, being Chinese, you clearly are too embarrassed to admit or deal with. At this point, no one can stop a Chinese in China from eating a dog. But that's not the point. It's the brutal way in which dogs and many other animals are treated that is offensive. Granted, American agro-businesses also have cruel methods, but at least in America, we have plenty of anti-cruelty laws and many states are passing legislations that will do away with chicken cages and sow locks etc. China doesn't even have a basic anti-cruelty law to begin with and why is that? It's because Beijing knows that it's impossible to enforce, given the generally low level of cultural evolution among the Chinese population. The Chinese have no problem with beating a dog right out on the street so that they can get the freshest piece of meat, so how can you order a Chinese policeman to go up and fine someone for doing it? Even modern Hong Kong only banned dog meat sale because of the legacy of British colonial law. I bet if not for the British, the folks there would be beating dogs for flavor and skinning them alive for soups just like in Yulin.

China no longer has a food security problem. That issue was solved a generation ago. But the Chinese now eat for pleasure and their way to prepare their foods is still down right barbaric. They have no idea how barbaric it is. Why is that? There can only be two answer. Either Chinese culture is horrifically cruel and accepting of these acts as ok or even desirable, or that the Chinese as a population is far too primitive to reject cruelty and have empathy. Take your pick.

Didn't someone say that the true mark of a civilization is in the way it treats its most vulnerable and hapless members, like children and animals? What does that make Chinese civilization?
 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:21 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,305,979 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
If that is what you truly think than you miss part of the issue you really don't do the image of Chinese people any good by defending the eating of dogs as much as you do. You actually worsen it in my opinion.
The Chinese people don't care if the Americans approve of their dog eating habit. Eating dogs doesn't need to be defended. Do you Americans defending eating beef in front of Indians?

You overestimate how much people care about American opinion. The Chinese actually do not eat a lot of dog meat, now I wish they eat more.

For Christ's sake, many Americans even judge the French for eating rabbits - look, how cute they are!
 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:23 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,634,969 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by euro123 View Post
It's not just China, England's best friend India has similar tradition and also Switzerland. Don't forget how horses are treated i n France and Italy.

To be fair the only places really friendly to animals are Eastern Europe, the Arabic world, Israel and Japan.

Anywhere else you'd find very weird cuisine.
Have you seen the way the Japanese harvest the dolphins in that special bay? And what about the whale hunts?
 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:25 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,305,979 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I am sorry to bust your Chinese bubble, but in China, the art of cooking a dog is a brutal affair. And for your information, I have not mention anything about the act of eating dogs, I am referencing the cruelty involved in the beating of dogs for flavor, and the way they are generally kept on their way to the table. You are the one who is always confusing the topic to the question of whether dogs should be eaten. Cruelty seems an innate Chinese character that, being Chinese, you clearly are too embarrassed to admit or deal with. At this point, no one can stop a Chinese in China from eating a dog. But that's not the point. It's the brutal way in which dogs and many other animals are treated that is offensive. Granted, American agro-businesses also have cruel methods, but at least in America, we have plenty of anti-cruelty laws and many states are passing legislations that will do away with chicken cages and sow locks etc. China doesn't even have a basic anti-cruelty law to begin with and why is that? It's because Beijing knows that it's impossible to enforce, given the generally low level of cultural evolution among the Chinese population. The Chinese have no problem with beating a dog right out on the street so that they can get the freshest piece of meat, so how can you order a Chinese policeman to go up and fine someone for doing it? Even modern Hong Kong only banned dog meat sale because of the legacy of British colonial law. I bet if not for the British, the folks there would be beating dogs for flavor and skinning them alive for soups just like in Yulin.

China no longer has a food security problem. That issue was solved a generation ago. But the Chinese now eat for pleasure and their way to prepare their foods is still down right barbaric. They have no idea how barbaric it is. Why is that? There can only be two answer. Either Chinese culture is horrifically cruel and accepting of these acts as ok or even desirable, or that the Chinese as a population is far too primitive to reject cruelty and have empathy. Take your pick.

Didn't someone say that the true mark of a civilization is in the way it treats its most vulnerable and hapless members, like children and animals? What does that make Chinese civilization?
Again you are mixing two different issues like you always do.

I support everyone's right to eat dog meat, or the meat of any animal. However I never supported treating dogs or any animals cruelly. Sorry, China in terms culture is not there yet to have laws to protect animal rights. It is disappointing but that is the status quo, just like it still doesn't allow gay marriage etc.
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