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Old 06-27-2017, 12:30 PM
 
4,685 posts, read 3,614,137 times
Reputation: 7382

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The Chinese people don't care if the Americans approve of their dog eating habit. Eating dogs doesn't need to be defended. Do you Americans defending eating beef in front of Indians?

You overestimate how much people care about American opinion. The Chinese actually do not eat a lot of dog meat, now I wish they eat more.

For Christ's sake, many Americans even judge the French for eating rabbits - look, how cute they are!
Again, you are deflecting. I am referencing the relative worth of Chinese civilization through the lense of cruelty. You have no answer to it because you know what the uncomfortable answer is. Of course the Chinese don't care. But next time when a Chinese person get beaten on the street somewhere outside China and racial slurs are thrown at him/her, don't be surprised. China will never gain the respect that it really craves if its people are of low quality. No matter how many Tiangong, or Bullet trains, or aircraft carriers it has, it will always be remembered by others as a place of barbaric cruelty. It'll never be accepted as a modern nation. In that context, how can we fault the taiwanese for not wanting to be Chinese, or Hong Kongers who insist that they not mainlanders? I would think this is the most humiliating thing for a people who love face so much.

 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:43 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,640,154 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The Chinese people don't care if the Americans approve of their dog eating habit. Eating dogs doesn't need to be defended. Do you Americans defending eating beef in front of Indians?

You overestimate how much people care about American opinion. The Chinese actually do not eat a lot of dog meat, now I wish they eat more.

For Christ's sake, many Americans even judge the French for eating rabbits - look, how cute they are!
Rabbit is one of my favorite meats.

Dog meat is quite rare in northern China where I spend most of my time. My wife had never seen dog meat until she was in her teens when her dad brought some home for her to try.

To be fair, Northern Chinese call Southern Chinese barbarians for the things they eat as well. Most of these English language articles on the dog meat festivals are by Chinese people. It's actually very difficult for foreigners to go to the Yulin Dog Meat Festival. Hotels in that city won't allow people with passports to stay in the city during the festival and police will turn away foreigners who try to enter the festival, many of them are forced to leave the city. Honestly, if I was the Chinese authorities, I would do the same thing, most of the foreigners are there to write sensationalist articles.

Chinese do care about what outsiders think, they care a lot actually, well at least the Chinese government does. There is definitely pressure from the government on the festival to save face. They've put limits on the amount of dogs that can be killed (which isn't really enforceable) and reports are that the number of vendors is in steep decline from previous years.

I used to have an employee who was against eating all sorts of meats, I always thought it was quite ridiculous, but many Americans are like that, the worst part is when they try to start dictating to other people what they should or shouldn't eat.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
9,674 posts, read 18,867,251 times
Reputation: 8571
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
You all should watch some videos of angora rabbits getting their fur ripped off their bodies while they're strapped down, <SNIP>
I call BS on that one. That was a staged video, anyone who raises animals for fiber can tell you that ripping off their fiber is going to ruin the next harvest of wool. They will be out of business after doing it the way shown in that BS video since they won't get any more wool from that animal. For angora rabbits, their first haircut doesn't provide the best fiber so it's not like they're trying for a baby wool production, either. It takes about eight months to grow them out to second harvest time. So that video is total shock value BS. Not sure why or who wanted to ruin China's angora production.

Here's how they actually harvest wool from angora rabbits in China:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25MsbEGyo3Y


You'll notice there is a big pile of white unstained fiber (if they tear the fiber off the animal how are they going to keep it white? Have you tried to get blood off of white?) and the animals aren't particularly upset by the whole process. AND in four months they will be ready for their next haircut. Angora rabbits get three haircuts per year, if you rip their wool off, you won't get any more. Now tell me how ripping fur off makes any logical sense what-so-ever?

Media hype is getting too crazy these days and, IMHO, it's no longer vetted for authenticity.

As for eating dogs, more places than China either currently eat them or used to eat them. In Hawaii they have a term 'poi dog' which is now used to mean a dog of unknown ancestry, but it used to be a somewhat specific breed which was raised to be eaten. One of my elderly neighbors told me her family used to eat dog all the time. She said it was "sweeter than chicken and would you like a recipe?" She was in her nineties at the time.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:55 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,262,981 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Again, you are deflecting. I am referencing the relative worth of Chinese civilization through the lense of cruelty. You have no answer to it because you know what the uncomfortable answer is. Of course the Chinese don't care. But next time when a Chinese person get beaten on the street somewhere outside China and racial slurs are thrown at him/her, don't be surprised. China will never gain the respect that it really craves if its people are of low quality. No matter how many Tiangong, or Bullet trains, or aircraft carriers it has, it will always be remembered by others as a place of barbaric cruelty. It'll never be accepted as a modern nation. In that context, how can we fault the taiwanese for not wanting to be Chinese, or Hong Kongers who insist that they not mainlanders? I would think this is the most humiliating thing for a people who love face so much.
Well, if we are set on this topic, I don't disagree with you at all, and you should know it. I am very disappointed by how the Chinese treat animals, or even other people on a daily basis.

However, you have to take things into perspective. China was a very, very poor country only 20 years ago, and things like animal rights is way low on the priority list. If you visit western and central China, you will see how poor and undeveloped many regions are, and you wouldn't expect people to care about noble things such as how to treat a dog. Do you really expect people from regions like this to care about animal rights (and other spiritual things?)



Unlike Taiwan or Hong Kong, China is massive with very unbalance level of development, which reflects in its people too. Some areas are doing much better than others. At least as a former Chinese citizen, I see progress in coastal cities. People actually sometimes queue for the subway in some cities, which is quite an achievement for this country.

Honestly, why else do you think I left China for Canada? I would definitely be making more money in Shanghai than in Toronto, but i never regret leaving. It is the people that I no longer wanted to deal with.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 12:55 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,640,154 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Again, you are deflecting. I am referencing the relative worth of Chinese civilization through the lense of cruelty. You have no answer to it because you know what the uncomfortable answer is. Of course the Chinese don't care. But next time when a Chinese person get beaten on the street somewhere outside China and racial slurs are thrown at him/her, don't be surprised. China will never gain the respect that it really craves if its people are of low quality. No matter how many Tiangong, or Bullet trains, or aircraft carriers it has, it will always be remembered by others as a place of barbaric cruelty. It'll never be accepted as a modern nation. In that context, how can we fault the taiwanese for not wanting to be Chinese, or Hong Kongers who insist that they not mainlanders? I would think this is the most humiliating thing for a people who love face so much.
China is modernizing, and many younger generations are against animal cruelty. I have many Chinese friends who have pet dogs and they are against animal cruelty as well. China isn't going to change overnight, but to cast all Chinese as uncivilized is a bit too far. I've seen some awful stuff in the US as well. I've seen some extreme examples of people helping other people in China as well. It takes time to change 1.2 billion people.

The Yulin Dog Meat Festival is being exposed by many Chinese people, not just foreigners. The people taking those pictures and videos are mostly Chinese, the people writing the articles are Chinese.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 01:01 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,236,862 times
Reputation: 5878
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The Chinese people don't care if the Americans approve of their dog eating habit. Eating dogs doesn't need to be defended. Do you Americans defending eating beef in front of Indians?

You overestimate how much people care about American opinion. The Chinese actually do not eat a lot of dog meat, now I wish they eat more.

For Christ's sake, many Americans even judge the French for eating rabbits - look, how cute they are!
The Chinese living in China I suspect are oblivious to what Americans and people from other modern cultures think about dog eating but I don't believe for one minute that the Chinese-Americans living in the USA don't care. That really isn't a positive stereotype for anyone who is upwardly mobile minded to deal with, to be viewed as a barbaric dog eater.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 01:04 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,262,981 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
China is modernizing, and many younger generations are against animal cruelty. I have many Chinese friends who have pet dogs and they are against animal cruelty as well. China isn't going to change overnight, but to cast all Chinese as uncivilized is a bit too far. I've seen some awful stuff in the US as well. I've seen some extreme examples of people helping other people in China as well. It takes time to change 1.2 billion people.

The Yulin Dog Meat Festival is being exposed by many Chinese people, not just foreigners. The people taking those pictures and videos are mostly Chinese, the people writing the articles are Chinese.
This dog eating thing is very regional and rare in China as a matter of fact.

I had dog meat once when i was a teeanger at someone else's house, and that was from a can i think. walk into any restaurants in most part of china, you don't find dog meat served. Walk into random grocery stores or markets, you won't find dog meat being sold. I wouldn't know where to find dog meat in Shanghai if I want to. I would need to google.

There is nothing wrong with eating dog per se, but in reality it is really rare and it was never an important source of meat for the Chinese.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 01:05 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,236,862 times
Reputation: 5878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
Nobody needs to defend eating dogs. It's just not our business what kind of animal people of other countries may eat, as long as doing so doesn't mean any hygienic or health threat to us (as for example eating bushmeat does). Of course I wonder why people like eating dogs, after trying several times in Korea and China I actually see no reason to do so, if there is enough supply of other animals. A good beef steak is much much better than a dog, and not necessairly more expensive these days.

But I still remember my grandparents told me during WW2 they had to eat any meat that might have been avaliable, sometimes it was a dog, sometimes it was a cat. It may be a relict of times when the country was poor and few other meats were available. However, dog is not unhealthy, it is supposed to be good from its nutritional value.

It's not like in American industrial meat farms the pigs and cows are happily running around the green grass whole day. Certainly we are not a good role model when it comes to animal cruelty, even though we are far far ahead of China.
Speak for yourself I'll determine if it's my concern or not. I've determined it's something I want to speak out about you can choose to defend the barbaric practice if you choose to.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 01:05 PM
 
4,685 posts, read 3,614,137 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Well, if we are set on this topic, I don't disagree with you at all, and you should know it. I am very disappointed by how the Chinese treat animals, or even other people on a daily basis.

However, you have to take things into perspective. China was a very, very poor country only 20 years ago, and things like animal rights is way low on the priority list. If you visit western and central China, you will see how poor and undeveloped many regions are, and you wouldn't expect people to care about noble things such as how to treat a dog. Do you really expect people from regions like this to care about animal rights (and other spiritual things?)



Unlike Taiwan or Hong Kong, China is massive with very unbalance level of development, which reflects in its people too. Some areas are doing much better than others. At least as a former Chinese citizen, I see progress in coastal cities. People actually sometimes queue for the subway in some cities, which is quite an achievement for this country.

Honestly, why else do you think I left China for Canada? I would definitely be making more money in Shanghai than in Toronto, but i never regret leaving. It is the people that I no longer wanted to deal with.
If that's the case I dont have an argument with you. The Chinese are now 56% urbanized but that still leaves a whopping 44% of 1.3 billion living in the countryside. Long way to go.
 
Old 06-27-2017, 01:07 PM
 
4,685 posts, read 3,614,137 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz View Post
I call BS on that one. That was a staged video, anyone who raises animals for fiber can tell you that ripping off their fiber is going to ruin the next harvest of wool. They will be out of business after doing it the way shown in that BS video since they won't get any more wool from that animal. For angora rabbits, their first haircut doesn't provide the best fiber so it's not like they're trying for a baby wool production, either. It takes about eight months to grow them out to second harvest time. So that video is total shock value BS. Not sure why or who wanted to ruin China's angora production.

Here's how they actually harvest wool from angora rabbits in China:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25MsbEGyo3Y


You'll notice there is a big pile of white unstained fiber (if they tear the fiber off the animal how are they going to keep it white? Have you tried to get blood off of white?) and the animals aren't particularly upset by the whole process. AND in four months they will be ready for their next haircut. Angora rabbits get three haircuts per year, if you rip their wool off, you won't get any more. Now tell me how ripping fur off makes any logical sense what-so-ever?

Media hype is getting too crazy these days and, IMHO, it's no longer vetted for authenticity.

As for eating dogs, more places than China either currently eat them or used to eat them. In Hawaii they have a term 'poi dog' which is now used to mean a dog of unknown ancestry, but it used to be a somewhat specific breed which was raised to be eaten. One of my elderly neighbors told me her family used to eat dog all the time. She said it was "sweeter than chicken and would you like a recipe?" She was in her nineties at the time.
I hope that video is the real situation. Here's where I hope that I was completely and absolutely misled by the media. China produces 90% of angora wool. I thought videos surfaced about the ripping of fur off the animals and many western outlets stopped carrying angora products from China.
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