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Old 04-22-2019, 09:22 AM
 
621 posts, read 381,659 times
Reputation: 145

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I think I see one of the many issues in Jakarta, having longer commuter rail line, poor people tend to converge on the side tracks of it which invites more poverty creating more issues along the way. Don't get me wrong, Manila poor people tend to have the same issue along PNR, it's just that the commuter rail line is shorter here as compared to Jakartas. Mass rapid transit is more extensive in Manila which removes the same issue as the commuter rail. So imo, more mass rapid transit line the better than having more commuter lines unless the issue would be eradicated on both metros.

Also, contrary to what I and you all said, it appears that it isn't the car-centricity that alleviates more the traffic situation to a whole new level, it's actually the chaos that is brought by so many motorcycles and single motor in your metro that's one of the culprit, which although there are quite a number in Metro Manila, isn't not much than compared to the numbers there in Jakarta.

These are just two reasons. I'll check for more.
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:06 AM
 
56 posts, read 8,525 times
Reputation: 13
can u imagine if 1 people using 1 car / bike meanwhile half population using public transport?
Indo have commuter line, service outside to inside jakarta area
Meanwhile u just build only for Manila

u think ur slum just spread in rail lane? U dont know what is Tondo?


until they dont have area to stay,.. so they stay in graveyard

Last edited by Pagpag_Masarap; 04-22-2019 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:15 PM
 
222 posts, read 50,781 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by neMarL View Post
Yes its funnier because you have been to both and you cant spot the difference? I have not been there but sure some of my friends had been and they wont tell a lie to me. Having more cars but you also have more motorcycles than Manila which is supposed to be occupying little space and yet most of my friends who had been there and most surveys and studies I have seen shows Jakarta one of the most congested traffic city in the world. Manila maybe congested too a bit similar but not probably as horrendous than yours. Having more cars but having bigger land area and as you said wider highways and more options? and yet more traffic. Still that doesn't make sense at all. Something is really wrong with how you manage your city. There's something on the grassroots level that isn't working right on your place.
No one denies that Jakarta has among the worst traffic. But Manila is just simply as bad. This tiny weeny difference isn't worth to brag about.

If you visit Jakarta yourself, it will "make sense". Indonesia in general has way higher percapita vehicle ownership (exclude motorcycle) compared to Philippines, 87 vs 38. Our gas price is also significantly cheaper. And based on study, Indonesian really is the laziest walker in the world.

If Jakartan has to face what Manilan faces everyday in their MRT and LRT, very crowded, full packed with people because of overcapacity, and the poor coverage of the lines that makes you walk significantly far or take other less comfortable transportation like jeepney, Jakartan will simply give up and start driving his car. You will always wonder why Angkots in Jakarta runs empty most of the time.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:18 PM
 
478 posts, read 188,814 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
I think Jakarta has better transportation because it has more options. BUT those big elevated highways create induced demand, which means more traffic. They also cut up neighborhoods. A lot of cities in the West are getting rid of elevated highways altogether. I think they're good for connecting cities and going long distances, and good for going around the perimeter of a city, but not running right through the city.
That is precisely what is interesting from Jakarta,Oke... by the way

One area in Jakarta but not CBD , a place that is visited a lot and is never deserted with many green spaces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzhhBbvvF98

New transportation Jakarta " MRT " now make interest to use it the with attracting passengers exceeding the specified target

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoBW15nKfiA

in Manila many people come to the BCG area because they have no choice but in that area but in Jakarta different SCBD is a business area and people are more interested in visiting the Jakarta suburbs
but when the MRT is built in Jakarta it feels like different now such areas such as Sudirman - Thamrin area now full of visitors I was surprised by many tourists at the MRT station

Last edited by Michiko_shanyang; 04-22-2019 at 11:47 PM..
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:41 AM
 
384 posts, read 100,953 times
Reputation: 93
^ Of that 39 minute video, 34 minutes are inside a mall. And the outside part of the video is mostly just walking around the perimeter of the mall. You're proving my point exactly.

Here's another area of Manila, not BGC or Makati

Ignore the title, I dont agree


You see the difference between what you posted and this video?

Last edited by manolopo; 04-23-2019 at 02:56 AM..
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:54 AM
 
621 posts, read 381,659 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post

If Jakartan has to face what Manilan faces everyday in their MRT and LRT, very crowded, full packed with people because of overcapacity, and the poor coverage of the lines that makes you walk significantly far or take other less comfortable transportation like jeepney, Jakartan will simply give up and start driving his car. You will always wonder why Angkots in Jakarta runs empty most of the time.
It is indeed crowded but let me stress this out, only during RUSH hours. This is one reason why Manila has better traffic congestion situation than Jakarta since the MRT/LRT lines services more populace in Metro Manila as compared to your KRL and BRT altogether combined. I had the privilege of riding the MRT/LRT in Manila on so many many occassions and yes they can get crowded, but then again, only during rush hours. Other hours of the day they are pretty normal to less people riding them.

Also, jeepneys maybe a bit uncomfortable but compared to your angkots and other mode of transpo similar to it in Jakarta they are more reliable and waiting lines there in Jakarta are longer and I beat its cheaper to ride jeepneys. Jeepneys in the Philippines makes a lot more sense compared to how unreliable your angkots are. Now that the government are shifting to newer version of jeepneys the issue with uncomfort would be addressed.

These are additional elements that provides Manila comparative advantage when it comes to traffic congestion management despite having more population and has smaller land area. The difference may not be quite that big as you try it to paint but it is a world of difference to ordinary passengers who commute everyday on both metros.

Also let me point out in Manila you don't need to walk significantly far as you are trying to portray here, as there is no shortage of jeepneys and trikes, they maybe are a bit uncomfortable yes for now but they make a world of difference. As I said, modernization of the jeepneys and PUVs are underway. You can literally ride a jeep and pull over just few meters away if you want to avoid the heat of the sun walking. That's not gonna happen with your Angkots.

Admit the fact, that although there maybe more cars in Jakarta than Manila, a huge percentage of Jakartans don't have and can't afford cars. While in Manila, many may not be able to afford cars but there's always an option for trikes for poorer families. You are stretching it out and hypocrisy on your part to say that the poorer Jakartans wont use angkots and other cheaper more uncomfortable means of transportation just because they are lazy or selective and choosy since many there also can't and wont be able to buy cars. That's where you compensate with the number of motorcycles and your Go-Jeks or whatever you call it, which in turn also alleviates more the traffic situation rather than reduce it.











Now digest all the points I have written above and add the LRT and MRT to the available transportation in Jakarta plus your HSR. While in Manila, add also MRT7, Metro Manila and Makati subways plus NSCR , line extensions of LRT2 and LRT1, add a river taxi and upcoming BRTs where do you think we are heading? Who do you think have comparative advantage? I'll leave that hanging as it remains to be seen since most are still under-construction. Have a great day!

Pasig River Ferry

Last edited by neMarL; 04-23-2019 at 03:57 AM..
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:39 AM
 
621 posts, read 381,659 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
^ Of that 39 minute video, 34 minutes are inside a mall. And the outside part of the video is mostly just walking around the perimeter of the mall. You're proving my point exactly.

Here's another area of Manila, not BGC or Makati

Ignore the title, I dont agree


You see the difference between what you posted and this video?
Oh include this kabayan. There's really no other choice in Manila than BGC. Although tbh I think he/she just need to get out of his cocoon and travel more.





Even Manila Bay is more walkable and more vibrant.




Last edited by neMarL; 04-23-2019 at 03:48 AM..
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:21 PM
 
478 posts, read 188,814 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
^ Of that 39 minute video, 34 minutes are inside a mall. And the outside part of the video is mostly just walking around the perimeter of the mall. You're proving my point exactly.

Here's another area of Manila, not BGC or Makati

Yeah..Manila is beautiful especially in the BGC area, but besides that this is still bad this same like Jakarta but Jakarta is still better than Manila
that is why Jakarta is an alpha world city and Jakarta is always * be in between KL and BKK

BTW..a video of Jakarta in the Sudirman - Thamrin Area how about Jakarta looks stunning


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gsax9FpFCI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaEmwKmmX2w
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:37 PM
 
222 posts, read 50,781 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by neMarL View Post
It is indeed crowded but let me stress this out, only during RUSH hours. This is one reason why Manila has better traffic congestion situation than Jakarta since the MRT/LRT lines services more populace in Metro Manila as compared to your KRL and BRT altogether combined. I had the privilege of riding the MRT/LRT in Manila on so many many occassions and yes they can get crowded, but then again, only during rush hours. Other hours of the day they are pretty normal to less people riding them.
Conclusion based on your own false assumption.
As I stated before, your MRT/LRT combined only has less than 100 km track. While Jakarta KRL alone has track more than double that length. Combined with BRT, it has more than 400 km track in total, can cover most part of the city. In 2018, KRL carried 1.1 million pax/day. BRT carried 663 k pax/day.

Quote:
Also, jeepneys maybe a bit uncomfortable but compared to your angkots and other mode of transpo similar to it in Jakarta they are more reliable and waiting lines there in Jakarta are longer and I beat its cheaper to ride jeepneys. Jeepneys in the Philippines makes a lot more sense compared to how unreliable your angkots are. Now that the government are shifting to newer version of jeepneys the issue with uncomfort would be addressed.

These are additional elements that provides Manila comparative advantage when it comes to traffic congestion management despite having more population and has smaller land area. The difference may not be quite that big as you try it to paint but it is a world of difference to ordinary passengers who commute everyday on both metros.

Also let me point out in Manila you don't need to walk significantly far as you are trying to portray here, as there is no shortage of jeepneys and trikes, they maybe are a bit uncomfortable yes for now but they make a world of difference. As I said, modernization of the jeepneys and PUVs are underway. You can literally ride a jeep and pull over just few meters away if you want to avoid the heat of the sun walking. That's not gonna happen with your Angkots.

Admit the fact, that although there maybe more cars in Jakarta than Manila, a huge percentage of Jakartans don't have and can't afford cars. While in Manila, many may not be able to afford cars but there's always an option for trikes for poorer families. You are stretching it out and hypocrisy on your part to say that the poorer Jakartans wont use angkots and other cheaper more uncomfortable means of transportation just because they are lazy or selective and choosy since many there also can't and wont be able to buy cars. That's where you compensate with the number of motorcycles and your Go-Jeks or whatever you call it, which in turn also alleviates more the traffic situation rather than reduce it.

Now digest all the points I have written above and add the LRT and MRT to the available transportation in Jakarta plus your HSR. While in Manila, add also MRT7, Metro Manila and Makati subways plus NSCR , line extensions of LRT2 and LRT1, add a river taxi and upcoming BRTs where do you think we are heading? Who do you think have comparative advantage? I'll leave that hanging as it remains to be seen since most are still under-construction. Have a great day!
Again from where you get that conclusion? As if you have tried them yourself.
I'm tired discussing things with someone that use his imagination to judge.

Jakarta doesn't stop building either, dear.
Jakarta currently has Commuter, BRT, MRT, LRT, Railink. And is constructing its MRT phase 2, LRT Jabodebek, Jakarta-Bandung HSR. And is planning to add corridor 14 and 15 of BRT, Jakarta-Surabaya Semi-HSR, more MRT to a total of 56 km by 2025.

To add is now constructing its 3rd runway of Soekarno Hatta International Airport. And is planning to build Terminal 4 Soekarno Hatta International Airport.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:44 PM
 
621 posts, read 381,659 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post
Conclusion based on your own false assumption.
As I stated before, your MRT/LRT combined only has less than 100 km track. While Jakarta KRL alone has track more than double that length. Combined with BRT, it has more than 400 km track in total, can cover most part of the city. In 2018, KRL carried 1.1 million pax/day. BRT carried 663 k pax/day.


Again from where you get that conclusion? As if you have tried them yourself.
I'm tired discussing things with someone that use his imagination to judge.

Jakarta doesn't stop building either, dear.
Jakarta currently has Commuter, BRT, MRT, LRT, Railink. And is constructing its MRT phase 2, LRT Jabodebek, Jakarta-Bandung HSR. And is planning to add corridor 14 and 15 of BRT, Jakarta-Surabaya Semi-HSR, more MRT to a total of 56 km by 2025.

To add is now constructing its 3rd runway of Soekarno Hatta International Airport. And is planning to build Terminal 4 Soekarno Hatta International Airport.

You are tired to face the truth, dear? I do not merely do things out of my own understanding and imagination, I do research, I get opinions from others and skimmed to different forums, videos and discussions for a long long time not just now. Just handle the truth or provide insightful rebuts at least if I ain't correct. And I don't think I did state my conclusions on my post, did they sound conclusions to you. Sorry if it sounded like that lol. But then again, reading comprehension my friend I haven't stated they are conclusions.

Sure let's see what the future holds. I'll hold my beer.
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