U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-15-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Singapore
27 posts, read 28,400 times
Reputation: 68

Advertisements

Without getting into the middle of this long argument I'll say that I found dealing daily life in certain cities in Manila (BGC, Ortigas, Makati, etc) FAR easier than Jakarta.

The traffic and navigational issues of the road system alone were enough to have Manila win
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-15-2019, 04:58 PM
 
621 posts, read 383,013 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangadi View Post
On the contrary many realize that Jakarta is such a mess, that people like me can easily say that cities like Bangkok or KL are better. But Manila? Well its almost equal.

In terms of walkability you can judge:
https://news.mb.com.ph/2017/07/22/ph...in-exercising/

Average Filipino only walk 500 more steps than Indonesian. Many people in Manila also relied on mobile apps like Grab for transport. Somehow bashing Jakarta's walkable area and less clustered skyscraper make a city better? Err.. So if I cherry pick Tondo, does that make Jakarta better?

Actually I don't mind if we just call him panis.
Eww Tondo is just a district of the city of Manila while BGC is a district of the city of Taguig, comparable somehow but then there still is Makati which is somehow the whole city not just a district and more central business districts to boot. If you saw Araneta Cubao video then that's the average Metro Manila not Tondo or BGC but the good thing is that the presence of BGC is a manifestation of a paradigm shift happening in Manila, slowly and surely it is showing how it will look like in the future as the old neighborhoods are gentrified. It is the manifestation of the potential it will have slowly coming to life. That's why the Indonesian guy in the video said "this is what Jakarta should be Aneis" because there's no place in Jakarta that looks like BGC. While Manila has already constructed places that manifests its first world potentials, Jakarta still has to follow suit with such big magnitude. BGC being bigger even with all Jakartas main CBDs conbined. We cant actually just understimate or discount BGC as its size is enough to be a city of its own. Makati and Ortigas which both are more or less bigger than BGC are there to spare for a triple kill.

Last edited by neMarL; 05-15-2019 at 05:08 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 06:41 PM
 
25 posts, read 3,740 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
So why does Jakarta have the worst air pollution in Asian according to the most recent study that came out this year? And why does Manila have a higher quality of life (according to Mercer and the Economist) than Jakarta? Quality of life takes many different aspects into account. Infrastructure isnt just about transportation. What about water infrastructure that is causing Jakarta to sink because people are drilling their own water.
https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...sia-study.html

*Southeast Asia

Jakarta have: factories, huge number of vehicles, poor green space.. if they manage to build the large dam, the city's north population wouldn't have to evacuate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neMarL View Post
Eww Tondo is just a district of the city of Manila while BGC is a district of the city of Taguig, comparable somehow but then there still is Makati which is somehow the whole city not just a district and more central business districts to boot. If you saw Araneta Cubao video then that's the average Metro Manila not Tondo or BGC but the good thing is that the presence of BGC is a manifestation of a paradigm shift happening in Manila, slowly and surely it is showing how it will look like in the future as the old neighborhoods are gentrified. It is the manifestation of the potential it will have slowly coming to life. That's why the Indonesian guy in the video said "this is what Jakarta should be Aneis" because there's no place in Jakarta that looks like BGC. While Manila has already constructed places that manifests its first world potentials, Jakarta still has to follow suit with such big magnitude. BGC being bigger even with all Jakartas main CBDs conbined. We cant actually just understimate or discount BGC as its size is enough to be a city of its own. Makati and Ortigas which both are more or less bigger than BGC are there to spare for a triple kill.
Rather than have Panis built me area like BGC (without a tad change to life in Tondo), I would have him give the poor access to free basic education, free healthcare, more green space, pedestrian path, more trash cans and proper housing. (Which is why I miss Ahok, and I despise Anies) The project to restore the old town seems much slower than it was too. Besides its not a governor's responsibility to build a whole privately developed cbd.

And BGC is not bigger than the CBD of Jakarta, that's just delusional.


https://ekonomi.bisnis.com/read/2017...iap-go-public#


https://ekonomi.bisnis.com/read/2019...iun-mrt-blok-a

vs


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonifa...a/File:BGC.jpg
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 06:50 PM
 
621 posts, read 383,013 times
Reputation: 145
^^
Maybe you are referring to the skyline, we are referring to the CBD area. Those two are somehow different. We already discussed that few pages back unless you want it reiterated.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 07:02 PM
 
392 posts, read 103,724 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangadi View Post
And BGC is not bigger than the CBD of Jakarta, that's just delusional.
Which CBD of Jakarta? Because there are several. Are you comparing all of BGC to all of the CBDs of Jakarta (which aren't all combined in one area)? That doesnt seem fair.


SCBD is only 45 hectares. Mega Kuningan is another 54 hectares. Rasuna Epicentrum is another 54 hectares, Kuningan Persada is 17 hectares. These would all be considered small/medium CBDs in Manila. Even if you combined all of them together, that's still only 170 hectares, which is smaller than BGC.

BGC is 200+ hectares. And then there’s another separate part of BGC which is McKinley Hill/McKinley West, that’s another 80 hectares.

Makati CBD (including all the walkable areas like Salcedo Village, Legazpi Village, Greenbelt, and Ayala Avenue) is 150+ hectares. And if you include all the surrounding wealthy residential areas in Makati, it goes up to 700 hectares. Makati also has poor areas, a redlight district, and a large golf course, but I’m not including those areas in the numbers.

And there are other small CBDs in the north part of Makati which are Rockwell, Century City, and Circuit Makati. They're going to eventually be connected. Combined they're about 40 hectares and they're going to continue to expand because its the new part of Makati.

Ortigas has traditionally been the second major CBD- it’s 100 hectares and continually expanding. And like Makati, it’s surrounded by a lot of wealthy residential areas. It goes up to 600+ hectares when you include those neighborhoods.

Eastwood City is 17 hectares. Newport City is 25 hectares

Bay City is 500+ hectares of completely newly developed land. A lot of stuff is already built, but there’s still a lot more to come. This will be the next major CBD

Alabang is 240 hectares and if you include the wealthy residential areas around it, it comes out to almost 1,000 hectares.

Some old minor CBDs include Downtown Manila, Binondo (Chinatown), and Cubao but I wouldn’t consider these areas as nice areas.

There are more CBDs currently being built like Arca South, Circuit Makati, Vertis North, Greenfield District, etc etc. There are tons coming up all over the place.

Outside of the CBDs, it’s not all poverty. The largest city in Metro Manila is Quezon City and it’s mostly just suburban residential areas. Same with Marikina, Las Pinas, and Muntinlupa. They're all mostly clean, middle-class areas.

Last edited by manolopo; 05-15-2019 at 07:35 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 07:21 PM
 
621 posts, read 383,013 times
Reputation: 145
^^You summed it up very well, thanks!

That's what happens when people from other countries keeps watching western media. They only show the bad side of Manila when in fact there are more interesting and modern parts of it. It's not perfect I agree but it is far better than what is portrayed on the news. I guess thats the same with Jakarta. Its just that the west is more critical of the Phils than Indonesia or Manila than Jakarta to be specific.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 08:19 PM
 
25 posts, read 3,740 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
Which CBD of Jakarta? Because there are several. Are you comparing all of BGC to all of the CBDs of Jakarta (which aren't all combined in one area)? That doesnt seem fair.


SCBD is only 45 hectares. Mega Kuningan is another 54 hectares. Rasuna Epicentrum is another 54 hectares, Kuningan Persada is 17 hectares. These would all be considered small/medium CBDs in Manila. Even if you combined all of them together, that's still only 170 hectares, which is smaller than BGC.

BGC is 200+ hectares. And then there’s another separate part of BGC which is McKinley Hill/McKinley West, that’s another 80 hectares.

Makati CBD (including all the walkable areas like Salcedo Village, Legazpi Village, Greenbelt, and Ayala Avenue) is 150+ hectares. And if you include all the surrounding wealthy residential areas in Makati, it goes up to 700 hectares. Makati also has poor areas, a redlight district, and a large golf course, but I’m not including those areas in the numbers.

And there are other small CBDs in the north part of Makati which are Rockwell, Century City, and Circuit Makati. They're going to eventually be connected. Combined they're about 40 hectares and they're going to continue to expand because its the new part of Makati.

Ortigas has traditionally been the second major CBD- it’s 100 hectares and continually expanding. And like Makati, it’s surrounded by a lot of wealthy residential areas. It goes up to 600+ hectares when you include those neighborhoods.

Eastwood City is 17 hectares. Newport City is 25 hectares

Bay City is 500+ hectares of completely newly developed land. A lot of stuff is already built, but there’s still a lot more to come. This will be the next major CBD

Alabang is 240 hectares and if you include the wealthy residential areas around it, it comes out to almost 1,000 hectares.

Some old minor CBDs include Downtown Manila, Binondo (Chinatown), and Cubao but I wouldn’t consider these areas as nice areas.

There are more CBDs currently being built like Arca South, Circuit Makati, Vertis North, Greenfield District, etc etc. There are tons coming up all over the place.

Outside of the CBDs, it’s not all poverty. The largest city in Metro Manila is Quezon City and it’s mostly just suburban residential areas. Same with Marikina, Las Pinas, and Muntinlupa. They're all mostly clean, middle-class areas.
Eh but I think we can easily conclude that Central-South Jakarta is the CBD area, that's definitely bigger than BGC. So your point is?

I think Binondo is pretty nice, considering there are old American era office/hotel buildings here and there that survived the war. Similar to Jakarta, the old downtown of Kota has been abandoned to the south. Probably because the land value is better than cramped old city. Binondo was the so called "Modern American" city with skyscrapers, back then.

Only Singapore tore down their old downtown to build skyscrapers around it, but that's because they don't have the luxury of land like us.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 09:10 PM
 
392 posts, read 103,724 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangadi View Post
Eh but I think we can easily conclude that Central-South Jakarta is the CBD area, that's definitely bigger than BGC. So your point is?

I think Binondo is pretty nice, considering there are old American era office/hotel buildings here and there that survived the war. Similar to Jakarta, the old downtown of Kota has been abandoned to the south. Probably because the land value is better than cramped old city. Binondo was the so called "Modern American" city with skyscrapers, back then.

Only Singapore tore down their old downtown to build skyscrapers around it, but that's because they don't have the luxury of land like us.

So all of Central-South Jakarta is one big CBD and it's all developed? That's like saying all of the central and southern part of Metro Manila (Makati, Mandaluyong, Pasig, Taguig, Muntinlupa, Parañaque, Pasay, San Juan, Las Piñas, Pateros) is one big CBD, but its obviously not all developed. I dont even say all of Makati is one big CBD. I only count the developed parts because Makati has some poor neighborhoods in the north and east parts.


Binondo is ok and it's still thriving because lots of Chinese businesses and condos are there and the land value is among the highest in the country. It just looks like a mess compared to the other CBDs. Of the old parts of Manila city, it's my favorite neighborhood. Ermita & Malate were largely destroyed during WW2 and they havent really recovered. Thats technically "downtown Manila"
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 09:19 PM
 
480 posts, read 191,523 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by winnycaritta View Post
they still not can compete with Jakarta
in that case, the point is to become a developed city needs a good infrastructure, prosperous people are not a business area or walkable or air pollution, street singers, homeless beggars hahaha 🤣

Philipines still low in foreign tourist compared to Indonesia

Ranking of Visits of Foreign Tourists Coming to Countries in Southeast Asia
https://kumparan.com/@kumparantravel...83644923053122

Thailand dengan 38,3 juta wisatawan asing

Malaysia dengan 25,8 juta wisatawan asing

Singapura dengan 18,5 juta wisatawan asing

Indonesia dengan 15,8 juta wisatawan asing

Vietnam dengan 15,4 juta wisatawan asing

Filipina dengan 7,1 juta wisatawan asing

Kamboja dengan 6,2 juta wisatawan asing

Laos dengan 4,1 juta wisatawan asing

Myanmar dengan 3,6 juta wisatawan asing

Brunei dengan 1,4 juta wisatawan asing
yeah .. thanks info
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 09:24 PM
 
480 posts, read 191,523 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by winnycaritta View Post
in the Dutch colonial future i think West Java Bandung was still feasible as a substitute for the capital city but at the present time it is not, but to being a city of Bandung business still has a chance, the new capital city must be in a new place to build a new capital city with a new design that will look cool ✌.
The government is currently gathering architects to get the best design new capital city. design the shape of the new capital later with the theme Green, Smart and Beautiful ... I think the right choice if it is Kalimantan , in East Kalimantan is very good if chosen as the capital but access far to Jakarta or other western Indonesia but very near the eastern part of Indonesia . Central Kalimantan is ideally located in the middle of Indonesia, easier access between the west, middle and east Indons .. howevert infrastructure is less supportive
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top