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Old 01-15-2019, 03:57 PM
 
386 posts, read 101,317 times
Reputation: 93

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
overall infrastructure, jakarta surpass manila
not only focusing on pedestrian, but airport, transport system (brt, commuter + mrt & lrt 2019 + lrt jabodetabek & hsr jakarta - bandung), road quality + toll road

Who would want to visit? off course the world know which one more visitor
For mass transit , Jakarta wins because it has more commuter lines. But why are you including hsr jakarta - bandung when it's not even close to being finished? If we're including future projects, then Manila will have 2 subway lines.

This year, 1 MRT line and 1 LRT line are opening in Jakarta. 1 new MRT line will open up in Manila and it will be longer than the combined length of the MRT & LRT lines opening up this year in Jakarta. So for LRT/MRT, Manila is still far ahead, even when the new lines open up in Jakarta.

We have big highways and toll roads in Manila too, and one major one (Skyway 3) is under construction and will open in a year. Jakarta keeps building highways as if it's going to make their city better.

Big highways dont necessarily make a city better. Paris hardly has any highways. It just has 1 highway loop going around the perimeter of the city, and no highways running through the center of the city. Atlanta has many more big highways running through its city. But nobody would ever say that Atlanta is a better city because it has better highways. Atlanta also has a better airport. It's one of the biggest and busiest in the world. But nobody would ever say that Atlanta is better than Paris because it has a better airport and more highways. Highways and airports dont make a city better. One of the big reasons why people like Paris (and European cities in general) is because it's so walkable. There's lots to see just by walking around. Nobody visits Atlanta because it has big highways, and nobody cares that it has a nice airport. People dont visit cities for those reasons.

Also, Jakarta may have more highways, but they dont seem to be doing any good. According this study, Jakarta has worse traffic than Manila. The average commuter in Jakarta is stuck in traffic 68 minutes a day, compared to 66 minutes in Manila. So that's not really a big difference. It's basically the same. But it shows how your highways arent improving traffic. They probably make traffic worse because they encourage more people to buy cars. This is called "induced demand"
Quote:
“Induced demand" refers to the idea that increasing roadway capacity encourages more people to drive, thus failing to improve congestion.
https://www.citylab.com/transportati...demand/569455/

Instead of building more highways, focus more on mass transit (both Manila and Jakarta are building more mass transit), and also focus on making your city more walkable (only Manila is doing this)

I'm not saying that Manila is a walkable city or anything like Paris, but it as many more walkable areas that Jakarta. You can see several foreigners walking around in this BGC video, even if it's humid outside during the day




^This is the type of city where people want to go and hang out. I've seen no videos of people in Jakarta actually walking around and enjoy their city. Unless it's during that day with no cars. They have to make a day with no cars just so people can walk around.

I dont buy this crap about "People in Jakarta just dont like to walk. It's too hot" No. If that were true, then why are so many people walking on car-free day? The city is just not built for people to walk. He says it perfectly here:

"Everyone I spoke to always said 'Why are you walking around? Are you crazy?' And people just generally dont walk that much here"

"The problem with Jakarta is, you can't walk around normally"
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:57 PM
 
386 posts, read 101,317 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
lol THE REASON city more visitor because walkable?

oh tell me why vietnam more visitor than u then?
You can't read. I didn't say THE REASON. I said:

"ONE OF the big reasons why people like Paris (and European cities in general) is because it's so walkable."

People like walkable cities. They dont go to cities so they can be in the car on the highway the whole time. And Vietnam isn't a city, it's a country. The reasons why people visit countries are different from why they visit cities. Most people visit the Philippines because they want to see the islands. Walkable has nothing to do with why people go to Boracay or Bali. I'm not talking about countries as a whole. I'm talking about cities.

People aren't going to Jakarta so they can sit in their car and ride on a big highway.

And according to Mercer's quality of life index, Manila has a higher quality of life than Jakarta. Manila is ranked 137. Jakarta is ranked 142.

https://www.mercer.com/newsroom/2018...ng-survey.html

Quote:
Mercer evaluates local living conditions in more than 450 cities surveyed worldwide. Living conditions are analysed according to 39 factors, grouped in 10 categories:
  • Political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement, etc.).
  • Economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services).
  • Socio-cultural environment (media availability and censorship, limitations on personal freedom).
  • Medical and health considerations (medical supplies and services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution, etc.).
  • Schools and education (standards and availability of international schools).
  • Public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transportation, traffic congestion, etc.).
  • Recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc.).
  • Consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars, etc.).
  • Housing (rental housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services).
  • Natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters).
The scores attributed to each factor, which are weighted to reflect their importance to expatriates, permit objective city-to-city comparisons.
So really, this is the most objective way to compare the two cities. Jakarta will probably catch up to Manila soon, because the Philippines has a crazy backwards president. But right now, Manila is still ahead of Jakarta in quality of life.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:20 PM
 
386 posts, read 101,317 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
still ho chi minh / hanoi more visitor than ur walkable city
Manila is not a walkable city... But it's much more walkable than Jakarta.

Vietnam as a whole gets more visitors than the Philippines. So it makes sense that both of its major cities get more visitors. A walkable city isn't the only reason why people visit. I said "ONE OF" If you know how to read. I havent been to Hanoi or HCMC. Maybe they're walkable. Who knows? They've got to be more walkable than Jakarta, that's for sure.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:35 PM
 
386 posts, read 101,317 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
for sure more visitor in ho chi minh, hanoi, jakarta than ur manila
How do you count visitors in Jakarta if most people aren't staying there and are going to other parts of Indonesia? Indonesia is a much bigger country, so I would expect its capital city to have more visitors because people land there and then go to other parts of Indonesia. But that doesnt mean that more people actually visit Jakarta. Why would they visit Jakarta? There's nothing to do or see there except malls and highways.

Manila's quality of life is higher than Jakarta. So that's what really matters. It's a better place to live by this very objective ranking
https://www.mercer.com/newsroom/2018...ng-survey.html
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:58 PM
 
223 posts, read 51,094 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
For mass transit , Jakarta wins because it has more commuter lines. But why are you including hsr jakarta - bandung when it's not even close to being finished? If we're including future projects, then Manila will have 2 subway lines.

This year, 1 MRT line and 1 LRT line are opening in Jakarta. 1 new MRT line will open up in Manila and it will be longer than the combined length of the MRT & LRT lines opening up this year in Jakarta. So for LRT/MRT, Manila is still far ahead, even when the new lines open up in Jakarta.
Don't forget the underconstruction LRT Jabodebek connecting Jakarta to surrounding cities, stretch 44 km. And MRT Jakarta phase 2 project was also being started last December, adding 8 km to the almost finished phase 1 of 16 km. And will continuously upgraded to around 110 km in the future.

Quote:
We have big highways and toll roads in Manila too, and one major one (Skyway 3) is under construction and will open in a year. Jakarta keeps building highways as if it's going to make their city better.

Big highways dont necessarily make a city better. Paris hardly has any highways. It just has 1 highway loop going around the perimeter of the city, and no highways running through the center of the city. Atlanta has many more big highways running through its city. But nobody would ever say that Atlanta is a better city because it has better highways. Atlanta also has a better airport. It's one of the biggest and busiest in the world. But nobody would ever say that Atlanta is better than Paris because it has a better airport and more highways. Highways and airports dont make a city better. One of the big reasons why people like Paris (and European cities in general) is because it's so walkable. There's lots to see just by walking around. Nobody visits Atlanta because it has big highways, and nobody cares that it has a nice airport. People dont visit cities for those reasons.

Also, Jakarta may have more highways, but they dont seem to be doing any good. According this study, Jakarta has worse traffic than Manila. The average commuter in Jakarta is stuck in traffic 68 minutes a day, compared to 66 minutes in Manila. So that's not really a big difference. It's basically the same. But it shows how your highways arent improving traffic. They probably make traffic worse because they encourage more people to buy cars. This is called "induced demand" https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/09/citylab-university-induced-demand/569455/
You simply can not push your subjectivity on others, can you? Dubai is also car centric, but it's doing very well.

Traffic jam may occur. But Indonesia's quality of roads based on World Economic Forum Report 2018 are already way ahead at 64 ranks, while Philippines is in 104. And railway quality, Indonesia is in 30 while Philippines is in 91. Fact.

Quote:
Instead of building more highways, focus more on mass transit (both Manila and Jakarta are building more mass transit), and also focus on making your city more walkable (only Manila is doing this)

I'm not saying that Manila is a walkable city or anything like Paris, but it as many more walkable areas that Jakarta. You can see several foreigners walking around in this BGC video, even if it's humid outside during the day

^This is the type of city where people want to go and hang out. I've seen no videos of people in Jakarta actually walking around and enjoy their city. Unless it's during that day with no cars. They have to make a day with no cars just so people can walk around.

I dont buy this crap about "People in Jakarta just dont like to walk. It's too hot" No. If that were true, then why are so many people walking on car-free day? The city is just not built for people to walk. He says it perfectly here:

"Everyone I spoke to always said 'Why are you walking around? Are you crazy?' And people just generally dont walk that much here"

"The problem with Jakarta is, you can't walk around normally"
We don't like to walk by the street. Too hot, too humid, too polluted. If you are fine, go ahead. We have pedestrian ways all over the city to walk on anyway. Don't ever think we don't have. And Jakarta has lots of open public spaces, parks, waterparks, themeparks, big sport complex, etc, even maldives-like island resorts.

The more interesting question is how Manilans commute? Current MRT and LRT are far from enough. During rush our, it was like pushing too many sardines to a small can. Just like Mumbai's, no thank you. I'd rather take grab anytime. How about Jeepneys? No thank you too. Exactly like Jakarta's Angkots. Forget it ... So, most of you just must walk on foot? Or simply stay at home?

I don't wanna put you down or anything, I just find this vid in BBC few days ago. There's nothing like this in Jakarta now. And the fact it uses active rail track is insane. Isn't it illegal there?

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Old 01-15-2019, 07:12 PM
 
386 posts, read 101,317 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
oh really? just malls and highways
there is thousand island in Jakarta ready to explore

Filipino visiting H island in Jakarta



16 million vs 6 million visitor, for sure not all stay in boracay, palawan or bali

There are not 1,000 islands. There are 342 islands, and of these, "only 13 islands are fully developed: 11 islands are homes to resorts and two islands are historic parks. 23 are privately owned and are not open to the public." So most of the islands aren't even available for tourists to go to. It is nice that there are islands, but I feel like most people wouldnt travel all the way to Jakarta just to go to those islands. They would go to other, better islands in Indonesia.

2017 is the most recent year that we have tourism statistics.

14.04 million tourists came to Indonesia in 2017
https://www.indonesia-investments.co...tion/item8564?


6.6 million tourists came to the Philippines in 2017
https://www.bworldonline.com/tourist...-million-2017/


So the Philippines received about 47% the number of tourists that Indonesia did. But then you have to consider that the Philippines is a much smaller country than Indonesia and has a much smaller population. The Philippines has 105 million people, compared to 264 million in Indonesia. So the Philippines actually has about 40% the population of Indonesia. So the fact that it has 40% the population, but received 47% the number of tourists shows that the Philippines receives more tourists relative to its size.

Just divided the tourist numbers by population of the country. For every 1 foreign tourist to the Philippines, there are 15.9 Filipinos.

Now for every 1 foreign tourist in Indonesia, there are 18.8 Indonesians. So the Philippines actually has more tourists compared to its population than Indonesia does.

This actually surprised me because Bali is so popular. You would expect Indonesia to have the higher number of tourists compared to its population.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:46 PM
 
386 posts, read 101,317 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post
Don't forget the underconstruction LRT Jabodebek connecting Jakarta to surrounding cities, stretch 44 km. And MRT Jakarta phase 2 project was also being started last December, adding 8 km to the almost finished phase 1 of 16 km. And will continuously upgraded to around 110 km in the future.

You simply can not push your subjectivity on others, can you? Dubai is also car centric, but it's doing very well.

Traffic jam may occur. But Indonesia's quality of roads based on World Economic Forum Report 2018 are already way ahead at 64 ranks, while Philippines is in 104. And railway quality, Indonesia is in 30 while Philippines is in 91. Fact.

We don't like to walk by the street. Too hot, too humid, too polluted. If you are fine, go ahead. We have pedestrian ways all over the city to walk on anyway. Don't ever think we don't have. And Jakarta has lots of open public spaces, parks, waterparks, themeparks, big sport complex, etc, even maldives-like island resorts.

The more interesting question is how Manilans commute? Current MRT and LRT are far from enough. During rush our, it was like pushing too many sardines to a small can. Just like Mumbai's, no thank you. I'd rather take grab anytime. How about Jeepneys? No thank you too. Exactly like Jakarta's Angkots. Forget it ... So, most of you just must walk on foot? Or simply stay at home?

I don't wanna put you down or anything, I just find this vid in BBC few days ago. There's nothing like this in Jakarta now. And the fact it uses active rail track is insane. Isn't it illegal there?


The fact is, people in Jakarta sit in traffic longer than people in Manila, despite having a city that is less densely populated than Manila. So that shows that your roads arent doing a very good job at handling the load.

I already said that Jakarta wins in rail because it has more commuter lines. But Jakarta will not surpass Manila's MRT/LRT, at least not this year. Manila's LRT/MRT combined when MRT7 opens later this year will be 73 km, compared to 25 km when the LRT/MRT lines in Jakarta open up this year. I also included the airport line in that number too.

I'm not even talking about projects that are more than 2 years off. What's the point? That's too far in the future. Manila's subway lines aren't here yet, so let's not talk as if they exist already. And LRT Jabodebek wont even be done until the middle of 2021.

You say that people in Jakarta dont like to walk. That sounds like an excuse. If they dont like to walk, then why do all those people walk on the street during car-free days? Clearly the people like to walk outside. It's just that the infrastructure doesnt allow them to walk. That's why they have to have car-free days so people can walk. He even talks about it in the video.

Manila has more green space than Jakarta. 13% green space in Manila.
https://www.scribd.com/document/1097...e-Green-Spaces

Less than 10% green space in Jakarta
https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...en-spaces.html


Both cities need to do a lot better though.

People in Manila commute by: car, grab, taxi, jeepney, tricycle (like a tuktuk), bus, train (commuter rail, LRT, MRT), FX (air-condition public van), motorcycle, bike, and river ferry- It has 12 stations and goes 28 KM from one end of the metro to the other.



Or people who live in CBDs can walk to work. So there's all kinds of ways to get around the city. You'll just have to wait in traffic a lot. But it's much better than American cities, where if you dont have a car, you can be completely out of luck trying to get around.

The guys in that video are using the tracks illegally. They want to avoid the traffic and avoid paying for the train.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:46 PM
 
478 posts, read 189,326 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post

The way you describe Jakarta, you make it sound like the type of city where people are just stuck in their cars looking at skyscrapers, or walking around the mall. What kind of city is that? Who would want to visit? You're not creating areas where people can actually walk around and enjoy the city. What good are skyscrapers if you can't walk and get close to them? You can only see them from the highway?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oz4kDIMg7A
You don't understand with this video, if you look at vidio Jakarta in the night, that's Jakarta's superiority compared to Manila even BKK , it a straight road & slippery, skyscraper,underground MRT entrance station, BRT Station and it's this vidio jakarta on the night not jammed. What kind of survey puts Manila to have a better quality of life than Jakarta ??? while in Manila lot beggars are still hanging around, poverty is still increasing, infrastructure is still inadequate, public transportation is still simple.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:57 PM
 
478 posts, read 189,326 times
Reputation: 141
was a researcher who said that Manila can be like Jakarta
I put from Manila Time : https://www.manilatimes.net/jakartas...nvious/425124/
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:09 PM
 
386 posts, read 101,317 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiko_shanyang View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oz4kDIMg7A
You don't understand with this video, if you look at vidio Jakarta in the night, that's Jakarta's superiority compared to Manila even BKK , it a straight road & slippery, skyscraper,underground MRT entrance station, BRT Station and it's this vidio jakarta on the night not jammed. What kind of survey puts Manila to have a better quality of life than Jakarta ??? while in Manila lot beggars are still hanging around, poverty is still increasing, infrastructure is still inadequate, public transportation is still simple.
Your videos are always roads. Always in the car. That's the only way to enjoy Jakarta. In the car, looking at skyscrapers.

I've already shown you that people in Jakarta sit in traffic longer than people in Manila. This is despite the fact that Jakarta has a lower population density than Manila. The nice shiny highways arent helping much with the traffic
https://www.rappler.com/business/190...study-bcg-uber


Manila has a bigger skyline, with more skyscrapers- Skyscraper Cities Ranking List
Manila has 345 buildings taller than 90m, Jakarta has 280. This is despite the fact that Jakarta has a slightly larger land area, so it should have more skyscrapers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiko_shanyang View Post
was a researcher who said that Manila can be like Jakarta
I put from Manila Time : https://www.manilatimes.net/jakartas...nvious/425124/
Why be jealous of Jakarta's MRT when Manila is opening another MRT line this year that is longer than the combined length of the LRT and MRT lines Jakarta is opening this year?
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