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Old 01-19-2019, 07:14 PM
 
621 posts, read 382,847 times
Reputation: 145

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You see that, once these Indones feel defeated with the positives, they'll begin inserting negatives as if they dont have them as well.
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:46 PM
 
392 posts, read 103,419 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
add more
-In Jakarta u cant find pagpag, in Manila you can find pagpag
-In Jakarta u cant find secutiry carrying gun, meanwhile in Manila always carrying gun
-In Jakarta u can find rendang, meanwhile in Manila u can find balot or kwek kwek


more unnecessary aspect maybe attract more visitor for ur Manila
So I posted actual facts, and plenty of them show Jakarta winning over Manila in certain aspects, and you come back with this hateful garbage.

Last edited by manolopo; 01-19-2019 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 01-19-2019, 08:47 PM
 
392 posts, read 103,419 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
negative? So u cant see positiveness there?
whats wrong with balot and kwek kwek?
whats wrong if have gun?
whats wrong with pagpag than starving to die?

same like u put those unnecessary aspect foreign worker, foreign retirement, international school, mercer ranking, etc etc
tourist dont care those list!
So because you dont like the list I posted, you post pointless garbage instead of looking for relevant information to post. If you want to talk about "things tourists like" then post them. Stop acting like a child.

Look at the whole list. I only talk about foreign workers because it's hard to find numbers for foreigners in general unless they're working in the country. I never even mentioned foreign retirees. Who cares about old people retiring in your country? It's a better indicator to find out how many people actually immigrate to the country and continue making a living. Thats also a much better indication of people who prefer your country. If they're just tourists who came to stay in a hotel or on a resort, it doesnt indicate much about their preference for a country. But if they're people who actually moved to the country, it shows that they actually want to live and work in that country.

We're not just talking about tourists in this forum. We're also talking about expats. But the things that tourists would care about are park/green space. Manila has more of that. Tourists care about cultural areas. Both Manila and Jakarta have them. Intramuros in Manila and Kota Tua in Jakarta. They're both similar, and they need a lot of work to make them nice areas again. They're both ranked a 4 on tripadvisor.
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:52 PM
 
392 posts, read 103,419 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
So you are not pointless when we already give data total visitor, then u talking about percapita tourism, foreign worker, etc2?
We give data there is walkable but u pointless with ur CBD? not match ur qualification bcos no cafe etc2?
Trying hard?

Total visitor is great. But you cant ignore the fact that your country is much bigger in land area and population. If you didn't have more visitors, I'd be very concerned. Did you expect to have less visitors? But that doesnt change the fact that Indonesia is one of the least touristed countries on earth.

'Overtourism': Countries with the most tourists per head of population


This is not actually a bad thing. I'd rather go to a country and be around local people than see a bunch of tourists. That's the big problem with Thailand

Jakarta is less walkable. Period. There's even a scientific study to back that up.
https://www.ictct.net/migrated_2014/...n%20Cities.pdf

Go to pages 11 and 12. Jakarta has a score of 48 for walkability. Manila has a score of 67. They explain all the factors that go into that score in the study.


Just look at your business district



People clearly dont want to walk here because there's nothing to walk to. All the walkers are probably inside the mall because when you walk in a mall, there are actually restaurants and stores right next to you. That's why people like walking around them. Jakarta only has that concept inside malls, not anywhere else.

Now compare that to our business districts


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Old 01-19-2019, 10:26 PM
 
621 posts, read 382,847 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
keep repeat ur pointless data,
less walkable not mean theres no walkable area!

so what ur purpose (overtourism + undertourism) if we have more tourist than u? Just make u feel better while u have less visitor?
So i can make excuse we Indonesia have bigger area so difficult to us build those walkable, meanwhile easy in PH bcos more small?
English baroque. Kindly rephrase.
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:40 PM
 
621 posts, read 382,847 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
Total visitor is great. But you cant ignore the fact that your country is much bigger in land area and population. If you didn't have more visitors, I'd be very concerned. Did you expect to have less visitors? But that doesnt change the fact that Indonesia is one of the least touristed countries on earth.

'Overtourism': Countries with the most tourists per head of population


This is not actually a bad thing. I'd rather go to a country and be around local people than see a bunch of tourists. That's the big problem with Thailand

Jakarta is less walkable. Period. There's even a scientific study to back that up.
https://www.ictct.net/migrated_2014/...n%20Cities.pdf

Go to pages 11 and 12. Jakarta has a score of 48 for walkability. Manila has a score of 67. They explain all the factors that go into that score in the study.


Just look at your business district



People clearly dont want to walk here because there's nothing to walk to. All the walkers are probably inside the mall because when you walk in a mall, there are actually restaurants and stores right next to you. That's why people like walking around them. Jakarta only has that concept inside malls, not anywhere else.

Now compare that to our business districts


Manila getting 2nd to HK in walkability which got 71pts is something, with 2 more other Philippine cities ranking higher than some of the cities in emerging Asia. Although thats quite understandable as many cities were excluded on that study. However, that only means Manila scores higher in walkability than many of top tier cities of developing Asia and is not what others are thinking of it being backwards. In fact, with that score it can actually compete and is more proximate with the developed cities in the region rather than those in the developing ones. The study was done 2014, what could be the most current one?

Last edited by neMarL; 01-19-2019 at 11:40 PM..
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Old 01-19-2019, 11:32 PM
 
226 posts, read 52,448 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
Jakarta has worse traffic despite having more highways and a lower population density. So the highways clearly aren't doing a good job at meeting demand. And I already posted a source that proves that building more highways causes more traffic because it encourages people to buy cars.

There's no problem with people visiting Jakarta or Manila and then going to other islands. But Jakarta is the capital of a much bigger country, so of course it will have more "tourists." But dont lie to yourself and act like those tourists actually come to Jakarta just to visit Jakarta. There's nothing to see in Jakarta. Here's the Jakarta experience in a nutshell:
You are not bright at school, are you? If Manila has bad public transportation, own less cars, has small highway and less traffic, how can the people commute more than Jakarta that has better public transportation, bigger and more highways, more cars, yet worse traffic? By flying? Geeezzz ...


Quote:
Foreigners make up a whopping 0.06% of the workforce in Indonesia, and just 0.16% in the Philippines. You're paranoid about a few foreigners living and working in your country? The point wasn't about workers, it was about people actually coming to the country and making a life for themselves. Despite all the problems, more foreigners would rather do that in the Philippines than in Indonesia. Foreigners visiting for a few days and staying on an island resort doesnt really give you an idea if they actually prefer the country. Foreigners actually living an working in the country shows that they prefer the country.
SURE, lots of foreigners wanna live in Philippines ... That's why your country was only visited by mere 6 million people. You complicate things with your excuses, Honey. Just admit that Philippines is visited by less tourists than Indonesia, no need to fool around about tourist percapita and then expatriate percapita.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:05 AM
 
392 posts, read 103,419 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post
You are not bright at school, are you? If Manila has bad public transportation, own less cars, has small highway and less traffic, how can the people commute more than Jakarta that has better public transportation, bigger and more highways, more cars, yet worse traffic? By flying? Geeezzz ...


SURE, lots of foreigners wanna live in Philippines ... That's why your country was only visited by mere 6 million people. You complicate things with your excuses, Honey. Just admit that Philippines is visited by less tourists than Indonesia, no need to fool around about tourist percapita and then expatriate percapita.
People in Jakarta spend more time in traffic because there are too many cars for your roads. You build bigger roads, and people buy more cars, and traffic just gets worse That's exactly what this study shows
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/06/...l-ignoring-it/

So your big highways aren't even adequate because you have too many cars.

There are more ways to commute than just using cars. Jeepneys and UV Express are very popular. Both modes of transportation can fit a lot of commuters in one vehicle. Think about it. At least 20 people fit in a jeepney. A jeepney is not very big and takes up only a little bit more space on the road than a standard SUV. So that's 20 people in 1 vehicle instead of 20 people in individual cars. I'm not a big fan of jeepneys, and I hope the president continues to fight to modernize them, but it's a form of cheap public transportation that results in fewer cars on the road. Same with UV Express. They're the size of a standard van, and they fit about 14 passengers. They're almost as popular as jeepneys. That's fewer cars on the road, which means less traffic. Commuters in Manila spend less time in traffic than commuters in Jakarta, and that's despite the fact that Manila is more densely populated.

People in Manila walk a lot more. If you live in a CBD, there's no sense in getting a car. You can walk or bike to work. I know the concept is totally foreign to people in Jakarta

People in Manila also have the river ferry as an option. We have train lines, but we need more. But they're not all crowded. LRT 2 is hardly ever crowded because it's so wide


And they're almost finished with MRT7, which will have trains just as wide as those ^, and it will be the longest line of the the MRT/LRT lines we have.

I didn't say lots of foreigners want to live in the Philippines. Both Indonesia and the Philippines have very few foreigners living there. But the Philippines still has a lot more living there in both raw numbers AND per capita.

If Indonesia, being 6x larger in land area, and more than 2.5x larger in population, ever got less tourists than the Philippines, then something would be very wrong. Indonesia should be getting AT LEAST 3x more tourists than the Philippines. But it only gets a little more than 2x more tourists. It's really under-touristed, but that's not really a bad thing.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:11 AM
 
621 posts, read 382,847 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post
You are not bright at school, are you? If Manila has bad public transportation, own less cars, has small highway and less traffic, how can the people commute more than Jakarta that has better public transportation, bigger and more highways, more cars, yet worse traffic? By flying? Geeezzz ...


SURE, lots of foreigners wanna live in Philippines ... That's why your country was only visited by mere 6 million people. You complicate things with your excuses, Honey. Just admit that Philippines is visited by less tourists than Indonesia, no need to fool around about tourist percapita and then expatriate percapita.
While it maybe is true that there are more cars in Jakarta metro than Metro Manila, (although you haven't shown a link or page where that is exactly the case, so that remains to be a claim not founded), the MRT/LRT system in Manila has a total of 1.5+ million ridership everyday compared to Jakartas commuter rail KRL which only does 1.2+ million to think that it does a wider coverage of ridership encompassing Jabodetabek or whatever you call it. Add up Manilas commuter line PNR which does at least 200k or more daily ridership, that makes it already a total of about 1.7 million taking the rail line in Metro Manila compared to the 1.2 in Jakarta. That 0.5 million does make a difference. Add to that the millions of buses, jeepneys and tricycles all over the metro that really makes a difference of why Manila has better traffic management than Jakarta even though you also have those plus BRTs which only levels it out on those other specific transportation option other than rail.

How did you come up with the idea that Jakarta has better public transportation? On a grassroots level alone, the jeepney concept is better than your ojek, becak, bajaj, angkot. They maybe are outdated but they are reliable, cheap and consistent.

13 million vs 9.6 million population with a bigger land area and less density. How come Jakarta has still more traffic than Manila? Obviously the answer is you dont have better public transportation system.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:50 AM
 
621 posts, read 382,847 times
Reputation: 145
In addition to MRTs, subways, monorails and BRTs, Manila also has just inaugurated its first land port called Paranaque Integrated Terminal Exchange(PITX) that will serve the southwestern part of Mega Manila in order to ease traffic congestion at the core center of the metro.



Two more landports are on its way, one is underconstruction in Taguig and the other planned in Bocaue, Bulacan to serve the southeastern and northern parts, repectively.







On this new scheme, provincial buses are no longer allowed to enter the core center of the metro, they will be confined to these exchanges and connecting lines from city buses, taxis, jeepneys, BRTs and LRT/MRT lines would then carry the passengers to their destinations eventually.
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