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Old 01-29-2019, 12:41 AM
 
226 posts, read 52,922 times
Reputation: 34

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovelondon View Post
And yet you don't see Tokyo or London or Paris on those skyscraper lists. Aim for class, which you don't necessarily get from skyscrapers. Be more Tokyo or London, and less Shenzhen or tacky Dubai.
So your point is?
Even London can not resist to modern itself. Sure you can keep those bricks and stones there, but surely you need to have more rooms and build modern towers somewhere, like in Canary Wharf maybe?
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:46 AM
 
393 posts, read 104,156 times
Reputation: 93
The CTBUH is showing the same information as Emporis, but sometimes it's not as up-to-date
Here's their list:

Number of 150m+ Completed Buildings - The Skyscraper Center

It says 38 200m+ for Jakarta (so Emporis is actually more updated because it says 39).

For Metro Manila, it says 28 (same as Emporis)

So it's the same info. But it doesnt show under-construction.

Also, if you look at skyscrapers in general (100m+), it shows Jakarta at 147 (which is a lot less than on Emporis- 165). Metro Manila has 119 (much less than the 233 on Emporis), partially because it's not up-to-date, and partially because several Metro Manila cities left off the list, like San Juan, Muntinlupa, and Pasay- all of which have skyscrapers. So Emporis has a more complete list, and a more up-to-date list.

And those lists aren't going to show Metro Manila because they divide it into the separate cities. So Makati has a lot, Taguig has a lot, Mandaluyong has a lot, etc, but you dont see all of those together on a list. It would be like if Central Jakarta had its own list, and South Jakarta had its own list. So Emporis is the easiest, most up-to-date way to make an apples to apples comparison.

And again, what's the point of skyscrapers if you can only look at them from the highway? What's the point? Are there actually walkable areas around the skyscrapers where people go about their daily lives? I havent seen any video indicating that.

Here's a video of a guy walking all over Makati

See how you can walk around amongst the skyscrapers? I never see that in Jakarta.

There's a market right there in between the skyscrapers. The two girls said the area reminds them of Vancouver, where they used to live


So even though the buildings in this neighborhood are shorter and older, the area is still more vibrant. In Jakarta, it's all about building the tallest, flashiest buildings (even though they're making your city sink even more).

Last edited by manolopo; 01-29-2019 at 01:26 AM..
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:51 AM
 
393 posts, read 104,156 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovelondon View Post
And yet you don't see Tokyo or London or Paris on those skyscraper lists. Aim for class, which you don't necessarily get from skyscrapers. Be more Tokyo or London, and less Shenzhen or tacky Dubai.

Yeah, Jakarta is trying to be more like Dubai, where you have big roads, big malls, big skyscrapers. While Manila is actually building areas that look and feel like real cities where you can walk around and enjoy. Both cities just have a different mind-set for what they want to be.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:42 AM
 
226 posts, read 52,922 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
The CTBUH is showing the same information as Emporis, but sometimes it's not as up-todate
Here's their list:

Number of 150m+ Completed Buildings - The Skyscraper Center

It says 38 200m+ for Jakarta (so Emporis is actually more updated because it says 39).

For Metro Manila, it says 28 (same as Emporis)

So it's the same info. But it doesnt show under-construction.

Also, if you look at skyscrapers (100m+) in general, it shows Jakarta at 147 (which is a lot less than on Emporis- 165). Metro Manila has 119 (much less than the 233 on Emporis), partially because it's not up-to-date, and partially because several Metro Manila cities left off the list, like San Juan, Muntinlupa, and Pasay- all of which have skyscrapers. So Emporis has a more complete list, and a more up-to-date list.
Better read the report of completed buildings only, since it is valid. There are still many possibilities that can happen to U/C projects. And if you check Emporis, there are some 200+m U/C projects in Jakarta missing from the website.

You can read https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forum...720&order=desc
And check the updates then compare it to Emporis
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:13 AM
 
226 posts, read 52,922 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
Yeah, Jakarta is trying to be more like Dubai, where you have big roads, big malls, big skyscrapers. While Manila is actually building areas that look and feel like real cities where you can walk around and enjoy. Both cities just have a different mind-set for what they want to be.
Not really. Saying Jakarta doesn't pay attention on its pedestrian is unfair. Jakarta has not only wide roads but also wide pedestrian ways all over the city area.



What Jakarta lacks is townships and CBDs controlled by private entities like in Manila, where everything is planned and organized well from the very beginning. Be honest, you can not comfortably walk outside those CBDs as well, can you?


Last edited by Landove; 01-29-2019 at 02:23 AM..
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:21 AM
 
226 posts, read 52,922 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohohihi View Post
Keep bark about walkable pointless
Outside MetroManila's CBDs like BGC, Makati, etc the situation is even worse than Jakarta to be honest. MetroManila is a city of contrast. You can clearly see the difference between clean and well organized part of the city managed by private entities vs disorganized and dirty parts of the rest of the city where the Govt is in charge.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:22 AM
 
393 posts, read 104,156 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post
Better read the report of completed buildings only, since it is valid. There are still many possibilities that can happen to U/C projects. And if you check Emporis, there are some 200+m U/C projects in Jakarta missing from the website.

You can read https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forum...720&order=desc
And check the updates then compare it to Emporis
I check the completed buildings on Emporis. There are 233 in Metro Manila, 165 in Jakarta. The info about completed 200m+ is the same on both websites.

And what does all this mean on the street-level? I would love to see how it works.

Makati street level is full of neighborhoods.

Legazpi Village
https://goo.gl/maps/agxvyYFVkAC2

Salecdo Village
https://goo.gl/maps/UdhjqJ3EEEm

Both of these neighborhoods have lots of little restaurants, boutique hotels, pubs, and their own weekend market.

Cool little gems like this all over the place
https://goo.gl/maps/78J4PQFG86C2

And Ayala Center is like its own neighborhood.
https://goo.gl/maps/EYs7Si8kQJ72
Mostly known for shopping, but there's also a ton of restaurants, bars, a nice museum, and a park.

Ayala Avenue- the "Wall Street of the Philippines"
https://goo.gl/maps/wtHQx3j1CV62

Makati has a completely different feel from BGC. BGC has Southern California feels, while Makati has concrete-jungle feel. These are the older, established parts of Makati. In other parts of Makati, they're building the 200m glass skyscrapers (Century City & Rockwell). But those areas dont have character like the old neighborhoods of Makati.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:24 AM
 
621 posts, read 383,508 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post
I've seen that New NAIA proposal since years ago, almost at the same time when I first saw proposal of Kertadjati International Airport.

Now, Kertadjati phase 1 is finished and already in service for months. But I still can't find any real update from New NAIA.
It is not so much about the speed but of the direction the course of action where it is taking.. This is a main gateway we are talking not just a second or third tier ones so this better be laid out the best way possible. Not the how-shaw way.


Take for example the one in Cebu, it took time for a new terminal was built but it shows how well-made it is. This is just an example.









Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
This isn't a proposal. This is what NAIA Terminal 3 looks like. I'm not sure if this is a real pic or just a drawing, but it actually looks like this

It is an actual picture thats why I said it was an old photo. It is indeed not a proposal
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:34 AM
 
393 posts, read 104,156 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landove View Post
Outside MetroManila's CBDs like BGC, Makati, etc the situation is even worse than Jakarta to be honest. MetroManila is a city of contrast. You can clearly see the difference between clean and well organized part of the city managed by private entities vs disorganized and dirty parts of the rest of the city where the Govt is in charge.

But even in the nice parts of Jakarta, it's not walkable. Having a sidewalk doesnt make a place walkable.



Compare the experience of walking all over Makati


vs walking around SCBD in Jakarta


You dont see the difference? Yes, they both have sidewalks (almost everywhere in the US has sidewalks, but that doesnt mean they're walkable areas). But look how the Makati video has so much more for pedestrians.

And even in some of the old, ugly parts of Manila, you can still easily get around on foot.

Binondo


Manila has pedestrian bridges crossing highways all over the place. We even have underpasses going under highways. But those dont necessarily make a place walkable. You're just trying to get over or under the highway, but what else is there for pedestrians?
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:09 AM
 
226 posts, read 52,922 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
I check the completed buildings on Emporis. There are 233 in Metro Manila, 165 in Jakarta. The info about completed 200m+ is the same on both websites.
If you click the link of existing buildings of Jakarta in Emporis, there are 208 buildings at least 150m in height,
https://www.emporis.com/city/100259/...us/existing/11

and 501 buildings at least 100m in height.
https://www.emporis.com/city/100259/...us/existing/26

Which one to believe?
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