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View Poll Results: More urban?
Hong Kong 13 56.52%
Seoul 10 43.48%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2017, 09:13 AM
 
189 posts, read 255,473 times
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Also, china city feels more international?
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:06 PM
 
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Having visited both, I'd say both are very modern and urban cities.
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Old 08-23-2017, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
6,316 posts, read 6,970,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oistrakh12 View Post
Which city feels more "Crowded"?
They both feel super crowded, but I'd perhaps suggest that Seoul has more areas that feel spacious and less dense. And from what I can tell the average home is also a little bigger. Living in a 350 sq ft apt with 2 other people in HK would make even your home feel very crowded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oistrakh12 View Post
Also, china city feels more international?
They both are very international. Not sure I can give an edge here.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,360 posts, read 547,271 times
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Quite familiar with all three places -- Manhattan, Seoul and Hong Kong.

Similarities between Seoul and HK:

Both cities have a border. And there is a no-man's land between the cities and the other sides (actually I wonder why does HK still need a no-man's land as a buffer between Shenzhen and the City). But when I leave the DMZ, I am curious that high-rise mushroom in visible distance. On the other hand, you have to travel by 5 minutes in vehicle to see high rise after leaving the border's restricted area in HK. And it is closer to travel from the City center to DMZ in Seoul then from Central to the border in HK.

Subway in three cities:

I don't understand why the subway in NYC allows homeless to sleep in the train. And it seems the subway in NYC is not staffed at all. There is no homeless in the subway trains of HK and Seoul. In winter time, I saw some homeless seeking shelter in Seoul's subway station. The bathrooms in Seoul's subway is cleaner than Tokyo's. In HK, only a few stations have bathrooms. In NYC's, I don't know where is the bathroom in the subway. Seoul's subway requires a lot of walking, in term of line transfer or walking up to the street level. And NYC's trains always suddenly slow down.

Cleanliness:

NYC is definitely the dirtiest. I also always see rats, alive and dead. The problem is that most shops and restaurants in NYC pile up their trash bags on the sidewalk day and night.

Supermarket:

Quite hard to find supermarkets in Manhattan. Just a few Trader Joe's and Wholefoods. Many in HK and Seoul. Seoul's in much larger scale. Lotte my favorite.

Access to airport:

Airport Express trains stop in Seoul Station and Central Station in Seoul and HK respectively. JFK's stops at Jamaica which is out of nowhere. A joke? La Guardia -- 3rd world airport according to former Vice President Biden.

Last edited by Ian_Lee; 08-25-2017 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 08-28-2017, 05:36 AM
 
102 posts, read 48,497 times
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There are more non East Asian looking people in Hong Kong.


Also South Korean families don't have Southeast Asian maids in their homes.


Staff at Mcdonalds, KFC and 24 hours convenience stores have the frequent chances to speak Cantonese, Mandarin and English with customers. And they don't earn higher than those people speaking Cantonese only working in Chinese restaurants. They can speak more languages, this is not fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus View Post
They both feel super crowded, but I'd perhaps suggest that Seoul has more areas that feel spacious and less dense. And from what I can tell the average home is also a little bigger. Living in a 350 sq ft apt with 2 other people in HK would make even your home feel very crowded.



They both are very international. Not sure I can give an edge here.
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:45 AM
 
116 posts, read 63,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSrights View Post
There are more non East Asian looking people in Hong Kong.


Also South Korean families don't have Southeast Asian maids in their homes.


Staff at Mcdonalds, KFC and 24 hours convenience stores have the frequent chances to speak Cantonese, Mandarin and English with customers. And they don't earn higher than those people speaking Cantonese only working in Chinese restaurants. They can speak more languages, this is not fair.
How common is it that Singaporean families have Southeast Asian maids in their homes?

Also, is there any discrimination against Southeast Asians by the Singaporeans?
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:48 AM
 
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The title here is Hong Kong and Seoul, not including Singapore.


For your information, Southeast Asian maids are common in the rich Middle East countries, Singapore, Brunei, Hong Kong and Macau, in richer families in Malaysia and Taiwan. People in western countries, Israel, Japan and South Korea may not heard of them as not common in their countries.


Also for your information, there are Vietnamese and Filipinos married with South Koreans in Seoul, Busan, Daegu etc. There are ethnic Koreans from China and Han Chinese in Seoul. Over half of the foreigners in South Korea came from Mainland China. They are the largest groups of non local Asians in South Korea. Americans is the largest group of Westerners in South Korea.


HK also has many people from Mainland China. But they are not classified as foreigners in Hong Kong's surveys. They can be divided into two groups. Those speaking or learning Cantonese and those not learning Cantonese. The largest group of foreigners in HK is Filipinos, followed closely by Indonesians. Most of them are female and hold domestic helper visas. HK started to import domestic helpers from South East Asia in the 1980s when the income of people increased. The next largest group in HK is South Asians from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka with more equal sex ratio. This group has been in HK since the early days of British rule. Western people and other Asians follow in numbers.

Last edited by HSrights; 08-29-2017 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 08-29-2017, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attisbons View Post
How common is it that Singaporean families have Southeast Asian maids in their homes?

Also, is there any discrimination against Southeast Asians by the Singaporeans?
Singapore is pretty similar to the Hong Kong situation - i.e. the both have southeastern maids.

I'll speak for Hong Kong though. Maids are very common in Hong Kong, and there is a discrimination against them. They are treated like ****, made to work 24 hours a day, for 6 days a week, and just get out of the house usually on Sunday, but have to be back by 6pm or 9pm. It's kind of like a prison sentence. There are tons of stories of domestic helper abuse of all kinds. Mental usually, sometimes physical, and they are exploited financially. Tons of stories where Chinese employers are too cheap to even feed them, or give them bus cards to cart their kids all over the city taking them to different evening classes.

Minimum wage is something equivalent to US$400/month for a maid. There are also tons of agencies that have sprouted up everywhere, that will take the first three months of wages from the maid, in exchange for finding them a job. So they'll often work for nothing until their four month.

You almost never see a Hong Kong Chinese person who marries a Filipina/Indonesian maid, almost never. You do find Caucasian expats who do date and sometimes marry them, however.

They are common, but are perceived very lowly, and treated quite lowly. On the plus side, Filipina/Indonesian people are very kind, sweet, nice, willing to work hard, and generally take the situation quite well. You wouldn't guess it when they fill the sidewalks throughout the city every Sunday, enjoying their one day out of their usual 'prison-like sentence'.
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,360 posts, read 547,271 times
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Tiger Beer:

You are kind of misinformed. The domestic helper has to be paid at least HK$4,310 per month (about US$550) by law. It is in par with Singapore which recently mandates the minimum wage to be raised to US$550. In addition to the one day off per week, the domestic helpers also have all the public holidays off, which include the 4-day Easter Weekend and X'mas Day and Boxing Day (Day after X'mas). Those days are quite important to the Filipinas because most of them are Catholics.

In addition, the domestic helpers are entitled to an annual 7-day paid vacation. Employers have to pay for their round trip air tickets. And if the domestic helper is working for the same employer for consecutive five years, the employer has to pay her severance pay at termination of employment.

And the stark reality is that if the employer just pays the minimum wage, there is no way he can hire a domestic helper. Due to the improved economy of Philippines and Indonesia, there are less female willing to work outside the country. There is stronger demand for domestic helper elsewhere, i.e. China, which employer is willing to pay higher wage.

In fact, there are some videos in Youtube which show the employee is interviewing the potential employer in Hong Kong. All the potential employers have to line up and wait to see the Filipina and Indonesian girl who just ends her contract. The employers have to answer some simple questions like do they have senior or kids in their household. If they do, most likely they will not be favored by the maids.

And of course, these potential employers are not paying minimum wage.
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:43 PM
 
480 posts, read 191,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Tiger Beer:

You are kind of misinformed. The domestic helper has to be paid at least HK$4,310 per month (about US$550) by law. It is in par with Singapore which recently mandates the minimum wage to be raised to US$550. In addition to the one day off per week, the domestic helpers also have all the public holidays off, which include the 4-day Easter Weekend and X'mas Day and Boxing Day (Day after X'mas). Those days are quite important to the Filipinas because most of them are Catholics.

In addition, the domestic helpers are entitled to an annual 7-day paid vacation. Employers have to pay for their round trip air tickets. And if the domestic helper is working for the same employer for consecutive five years, the employer has to pay her severance pay at termination of employment.

And the stark reality is that if the employer just pays the minimum wage, there is no way he can hire a domestic helper. Due to the improved economy of Philippines and Indonesia, there are less female willing to work outside the country. There is stronger demand for domestic helper elsewhere, i.e. China, which employer is willing to pay higher wage.

In fact, there are some videos in Youtube which show the employee is interviewing the potential employer in Hong Kong. All the potential employers have to line up and wait to see the Filipina and Indonesian girl who just ends her contract. The employers have to answer some simple questions like do they have senior or kids in their household. If they do, most likely they will not be favored by the maids.

And of course, these potential employers are not paying minimum wage.
I agree with your opinion, in 2018 Indonesia will stop sending domestic servants other countries , the basic reason is Indonesia's economic growth is getting better and treatment of Indonesian women workers due to the low protection of them, especially in countries such as the Middle East , malaysia, Hongkong and so on. like the example of a few years ago there was murder in Hongkong by expatriates to two ex indonesian maid, this is also a consideration, usually some employers chinese in HK give their "indonesian maid" time to work until the afternoon and night they can stay outside, these maid usually stay in a small boarding house,the night they use the opportunity to have fun in the nightclub or bar with their friends, maybe you will be surprised at wanchai lot of women from philippines & indonesia.
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