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Old 09-09-2017, 09:56 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,639,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
does it?

France of course has a higher quality of life than China today, but its wealth was not accumulated during the time it was "democratic", was it? You need to be careful about the underlying logic here. If China had democracy, it would be a lot poorer and less advanced today and that is my point (although on paper it would be part of the "free world") Whether I choose to live has nothing to do with under what government a country can grow faster.
I agree with you. I definitely don't agree with everything China does nor its policies, but the form of government in China has done wonders for the average Chinese person.

But in reality, does the average Indian, Chinese, Canadian, or French person really have much influence on the type of government form their respective countries have.
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,594 posts, read 2,650,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I agree with you. I definitely don't agree with everything China does nor its policies, but the form of government in China has done wonders for the average Chinese person.

But in reality, does the average Indian, Chinese, Canadian, or French person really have much influence on the type of government form their respective countries have.
No but Iceland the people have any incredibly large amount of say.
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:46 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,260,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
No but Iceland the people have any incredibly large amount of say.
yeah, for a country with 300k people. Even my hometown has 5 times the people.

On that level (village by Chinese standard), the Chinese people actually have democracy in choosing their leader.

Going back to Japan, it is actually building a lot of projects in India at a loss, just because they want to increase their "influence" I guess. I don't know why you are so optimistic about Japan , but it really doesn't have a very bright future. I think it is more about you WANT it to rise instead of think it will rise.
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:50 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,639,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
No but Iceland the people have any incredibly large amount of say.
My point is the average citizen of a country shouldn't be blamed for their government type. Blaming Indians or Chinese for their type of government is silly. The same is true for any country.

I personally do not believe full direct democracy is a good government form. I'd rather have a strong republic and some democratic parts.
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,594 posts, read 2,650,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
yeah, for a country with 300k people. Even my hometown has 5 times the people.

On that level (village by Chinese standard), the Chinese people actually have democracy in choosing their leader.

Going back to Japan, it is actually building a lot of projects in India at a loss, just because they want to increase their "influence" I guess. I don't know why you are so optimistic about Japan , but it really doesn't have a very bright future. I think it is more about you WANT it to rise instead of think it will rise.
You have to admit though with their rising Military (something Abe and Trump are pushing for) Japan is going to have to exert more influence in East Asia.

And there will be buyers because many small Asian countries despise China (for cultural or historical reasons) and if the US is not there then Japan will be the only who can compete with China. No other country in Asia is developed enough or has large enough corporations to spend large amounts of money developing overseas territories and countries.

Obviously I could be wrong but as of now the Japanese have a will to do it. And to top this all off Japanese corporations have a tone of money saved up that they could use to invest in other countries. Add up all the major Japanese companies' savings and you will get as much USD valued cash as China has promised to invest in their one belt, one road strategy.

Either way we will see what happens but I think for the near future Japan will be a rising power with more spotlight on it thanks to it's distance to North Korea and the coming Olympic games.
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:08 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,260,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You have to admit though with their rising Military (something Abe and Trump are pushing for) Japan is going to have to exert more influence in East Asia.

And there will be buyers because many small Asian countries despise China (for cultural or historical reasons) and if the US is not there then Japan will be the only who can compete with China. No other country in Asia is developed enough or has large enough corporations to spend large amounts of money developing overseas territories and countries.

Obviously I could be wrong but as of now the Japanese have a will to do it. And to top this all off Japanese corporations have a tone of money saved up that they could use to invest in other countries. Add up all the major Japanese companies' savings and you will get as much USD valued cash as China has promised to invest in their one belt, one road strategy.

Either way we will see what happens but I think for the near future Japan will be a rising power with more spotlight on it thanks to it's distance to North Korea and the coming Olympic games.
yeah, "small Asian countries" despise China but love Japan? Did you forget Japan raped pretty much every single East/SE Asian country only 70 years ago? You think it is all forgotten and forgiven, just because Japan was castrated since WWII?

Western education sometimes boggles my mind. Now Japan for them is a peace-loving, benign country that is so adorable...

I agree the two countries will compete and cooperate, but it is naive to expect Japan to "rise" significantly, whatever military budget it has (it is already the world's most heavily debted country).
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,515 posts, read 3,097,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
yeah, "small Asian countries" despise China but love Japan? Did you forget Japan raped pretty much every single East/SE Asian country only 70 years ago? You think it is all forgotten and forgiven, just because Japan was castrated since WWII?

Western education sometimes boggles my mind. Now Japan for them is a peace-loving, benign country that is so adorable...

I agree the two countries will compete and cooperate, but it is naive to expect Japan to "rise" significantly, whatever military budget it has (it is already the world's most heavily debted country).
the japanese are coming for you, botticelli.

there can be only one.

Remember, never trust a communist.
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:27 PM
 
8,020 posts, read 7,300,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Great, I apologize for being snarky.

However, Japan is a very mature society and a very reserved culture. I think Japan has peaked a long time ago and will not go back to its previous glory. Yeah, Japan maybe investing in India, but China is investing (or "exploiting" according to many westerners) massively in central Asia, Africa and S America. I don't see any advantage enjoyed by Japan in that respect. Japan will remain very wealthy of course, something China on an average level may find very hard to match, but in terms of "economic influence", one would be naive to think Japan has the edge (just because western countries like it more? No, it is profit that talks eventually).

As to India, they can't even erase tariff among different regions, something China successfully did a few months after establishment of the country. And the fragmentation, religion conflict. They should wish they had an authoritarian government.
You only see what's going on at the current moment. It is a recent trend for China, but it has been going on a long time for Japan, US, and Europe.

Japan's manufacturing started moving offshore in the early 90's. High wages, the late 80's bubble, and the coordinated depreciation of the US dollar caused Japan Inc. to look to relocate their plants to cheaper locations in Asia. 1993 was around the time when the term Asian Tigers was coined to describe the up-and-coming Asian economies.

JAPAN'S COMPANIES MOVING PRODUCTION TO SITES OVERSEAS - NYTimes.com
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Old 09-09-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 806,102 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
the japanese are coming for you, botticelli.

there can be only one.

Remember, never trust a communist.
Never trust a politician.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:05 PM
 
2,776 posts, read 1,013,615 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
does it?

France of course has a higher quality of life than China today, but its wealth was not accumulated during the time it was "democratic", was it? You need to be careful about the underlying logic here. If China had democracy, it would be a lot poorer and less advanced today and that is my point (although on paper it would be part of the "free world") Whether I choose to live has nothing to do with under what government a country can grow faster.
I don't agree with the premise that a country needs to be autocratic to develop. If you're comparing China's growth to that of India's there are other factors at play there, chief of which is the prevalence of the cast system in India and the prejudice against women. These are problems with their society that need to be addressed but they are not related to a democratic style of government. What holds India back is the dogmatic application of traditional principles that are out of place in the 21st century.
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