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Old 09-09-2017, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I don't agree with the premise that a country needs to be autocratic to develop. If you're comparing China's growth to that of India's there are other factors at play there, chief of which is the prevalence of the cast system in India and the prejudice against women. These are problems with their society that need to be addressed but they are not related to a democratic style of government. What holds India back is the dogmatic application of traditional principles that are out of place in the 21st century.
If pakistan and bangladesh are any indication of what a south asian dictatorship is like, india would be worse off.

India is only in its current predicament because of poor leadership such as nehru (who ironically trusted mao until mao bent him over) and the congress party. Caste system is overrated. Even the British and Japanese, and latin america have caste systems. Muslims countries even have monarchs and treat women worse. The key is free exchange of ideas for a successful economy and law and order.

If Modi is successful with his reforms, India may beat china out in the long run when the PRC hits is demographic age timebomb.

Heck, the chinese blinked over Doklam border standoff and they can't even control their vassal state, north korea.

I do not see the PRC surpassing the US. Now is the perfect time to do it while Trump is in office.
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,587 posts, read 2,647,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
If pakistan and bangladesh are any indication of what a south asian dictatorship is like, india would be worse off.

India is only in its current predicament because of poor leadership such as nehru (who ironically trusted mao until mao bent him over) and the congress party. Caste system is overrated. Even the British and Japanese, and latin america have caste systems. Muslims countries even have monarchs and treat women worse. The key is free exchange of ideas for a successful economy and law and order.

If Modi is successful with his reforms, India may beat china out in the long run when the PRC hits is demographic age timebomb.

Heck, the chinese blinked over Doklam border standoff and they can't even control their vassal state, north korea.

I do not see the PRC surpassing the US. Now is the perfect time to do it while Trump is in office.
Also there are democratic examples of countries that developed fast (South Korea, Japan, Finland United States, etc.)
Growth comes from your country's work culture and social stability (the US's trouble with the latter are nothing compared to those of the Middle East and Africa today).
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Also there are democratic examples of countries that developed fast (South Korea, Japan, Finland United States, etc.)
Growth comes from your country's work culture and social stability (the US's trouble with the latter are nothing compared to those of the Middle East and Africa today).
Japan and south korea were supported by the US, american money with access to US markets. That is why they are stable and democratic. Japan and south korea ironically still hate each other when they should probably form some kind of NATO partnership with rest of democratic asia against the red dragon.

I don't know if finland was supported by the marshal plan.

Middle east is obsessed with jihad. They need to secularize and diversify their economies.
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:22 AM
 
2,776 posts, read 1,012,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
If pakistan and bangladesh are any indication of what a south asian dictatorship is like, india would be worse off.

India is only in its current predicament because of poor leadership such as nehru (who ironically trusted mao until mao bent him over) and the congress party. Caste system is overrated. Even the British and Japanese, and latin america have caste systems. Muslims countries even have monarchs and treat women worse. The key is free exchange of ideas for a successful economy and law and order.

If Modi is successful with his reforms, India may beat china out in the long run when the PRC hits is demographic age timebomb.

Heck, the chinese blinked over Doklam border standoff and they can't even control their vassal state, north korea.

I do not see the PRC surpassing the US. Now is the perfect time to do it while Trump is in office.
The caste system isn't just overrated, it's completely idiotic. These are the kinds of thoughts that plague Indian society in the 21st century. That's the thing with dogmatic values and their application, they need to be logical if they are to be successful. What's the point of cutting off people from certain positions because of a predetermined past status.

I understand what Botticelli meant when he said that China's system allows it to develop faster. The fact that the country is autocratic enables the government to implement policies with little opposition, therefore it avoids the bottlenecks faced by democracies. I mean the PRC can build new subways a lot faster than many countries.

But, I disagree with his notion that autocracy is necessary in the formative stages of development. I mean, if we look at the previous example with the subway development, the reason why a country like the US is slow at introducing new lines (relative to China) goes beyond the pitfalls of democracy but is tied to bureaucracy or in this case the prevalence of a car centric culture.
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
I don't know if finland was supported by the marshal plan.
It wasn't.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Earth
4,513 posts, read 3,094,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
The caste system isn't just overrated, it's completely idiotic. These are the kinds of thoughts that plague Indian society in the 21st century.
When I mean overrated, its because westerners blow it out of proportion. In the cities, there isn't much of a problem. Its the villages and education. The british and japanese have a caste system but the people are much more educated which stops the discrimination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I understand what Botticelli meant when he said that China's system allows it to develop faster. The fact that the country is autocratic enables the government to implement policies with little opposition, therefore it avoids the bottlenecks faced by democracies. I mean the PRC can build new subways a lot faster than many countries.

But, I disagree with his notion that autocracy is necessary in the formative stages of development. I mean, if we look at the previous example with the subway development, the reason why a country like the US is slow at introducing new lines (relative to China) goes beyond the pitfalls of democracy but is tied to bureaucracy or in this case the prevalence of a car centric culture.
I think its entirely dependent on leadership and the will of the country. Back in the 1800s, the US was building a crapload of rail but the nation needed it and wanted it.

Now, for some reason no one wants to build passenger. They would rather get their civil rights violated by the TSA like its the PRC.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,587 posts, read 2,647,644 times
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https://www.google.com/amp/m.indiato...1/1042601.html
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:41 PM
 
8,016 posts, read 7,295,370 times
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Business conglomerates and governments are closely coupled in Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and elsewhere. Because of the intertwining nature of the businesses within these conglomerates and the close coordination with the government, it tends to favor the supply of products or services from one of the subsidiary partners rather than an outside supplier.

Capitalism in Japan: Cartels and Keiretsu

South Korea: Chaebol

Recent Korean news indicates that the four or five largest companies control about 65 percent of the GDP. There is a lot of insecurity among the young workers since the 'reform' which favored moving more work to part-time and temporary (as in Japan). To get a secure, long-term position with one of the four or five major firms, one has to graduate from one of the three SKY universities.

The central economic planning in Japan was glowingly reported in US academia and the press in the 1980's.

MITI and the Japanese miracle

It is not unlike the state capitalism in China.
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Old 09-10-2017, 02:36 PM
 
2,412 posts, read 1,607,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I think he lives in France atm, but your point still stands.
It doesn't, them frenchies are bigger commies! jk. .
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
does it?

France of course has a higher quality of life than China today, but its wealth was not accumulated during the time it was "democratic", was it? You need to be careful about the underlying logic here. If China had democracy, it would be a lot poorer and less advanced today and that is my point (although on paper it would be part of the "free world") Whether I choose to live has nothing to do with under what government a country can grow faster.
And yet, China was autocratic (even more so than today) during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution - which really set back China's economic growth.

It's fallacious to state that autocracy is a condition for rapid economic growth - because the reverse can happen.
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