U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-19-2017, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,921 posts, read 83,566,150 times
Reputation: 41739

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
I think it's good news that Japan is back growing strong. I understand they have a problem with a more elderly population due to low birthrate and long lived so the net effect is difficulty finding workers for the jobs that are open.

I don't think this is a problem for China, they want to be able to do business for mutual benefit even though after I lived in China, there is still some strong resentment towards what Japan did in its past.
I too am happy to see Japan try and make a come back. Those living there now were not part of what happened 70 plus years ago, or most weren't anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-19-2017, 09:24 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,253,275 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
And what makes you think US or Europe for that matter is trying to force their ideology on others? Yes, we happen to believe in democracy as the best type of government and feel a capitalistic society is better than other types, but we don't tell others they must believe the same.
No? Really?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2017, 10:44 PM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,599,126 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
And what makes you think US or Europe for that matter is trying to force their ideology on others? Yes, we happen to believe in democracy as the best type of government and feel a capitalistic society is better than other types, but we don't tell others they must believe the same.
No. Western countries do force their ideology on others, and have a lot of people working on that. Heard of the Voice of America? A government funded Radio station.
China does not have a foreign language channel specialized in criticizing a specific government.

The governments resisting the influence are either being attacked (politically or militarily) or thrown off.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,654 posts, read 3,640,251 times
Reputation: 16563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Well said. You sound like an insider.

Korean consumers are very patriotic. I don't know if it is still true, but in 1990s I heard almost all cars in Seoul were Korean makes. They just don't buy Japanese or American cars.

Chinese consumers do not have such a strong preference. Some Chinese companies actually tried to use patriotism to boost sales but it was not quite successful, unless government protection was involved.
I was in Seoul in June. If I had to guess, I would say that at least 55-60 percent of the cars were Hyundai. Another 20-25 percent were Kia. There were actually more than a few Chevys in the mix as well, which surprised me. I don't recall seeing a single Japanese-made car there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 09:56 AM
 
8,005 posts, read 7,292,844 times
Reputation: 6382
The recent fiscal stimulus for 2017 was 5.3% of GDP. Monetary and fiscal stimulus have been done a number of times in the last 27 years. The fiscal deficit has recently fallen to about 4.5% of GDP. The probable successor to Kuroda at the central bank is contemplating an "exit" from QQE where the debt purchases roughly equal the annual financing requirements for the government.

Last edited by lchoro; 08-21-2017 at 10:28 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 05:24 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,387 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Well said. You sound like an insider.

Korean consumers are very patriotic. I don't know if it is still true, but in 1990s I heard almost all cars in Seoul were Korean makes. They just don't buy Japanese or American cars.

Chinese consumers do not have such a strong preference. Some Chinese companies actually tried to use patriotism to boost sales but it was not quite successful, unless government protection was involved.
Korea developed the same way as Japan did and pretty much what China is/was doing, i.e. using the export driven model whilst closing the domestic market off or killing foreign imports by slapping on huge tariffs. Domestic companies then tie up with whoever the market leader is and then absorb and hopefully disseminate enough technology to produce or catchup to the world's best. Japanese companies absorbed America and West German technology, the Koreans did it with the Japanese. The Chinese basically got their tech off American & European companies.

South Korea and Japan are pro-American and economic assistance/technology transfers are much easier than Communist China. The latter used their 'huge potential' market to lure foreigner companies to transfer tech, unfortunately, for America/Europe/Japan they have quickly found out the mainland Chinese is more than they can bite off dealing with the CCP!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 05:33 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,387 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76 View Post
They'll call it Google Nexus because it will sell more than something that is called Huawei Nexus.

No matter how big Huawei is, they're still nothing compared to Google. It's all about what will get more units sold.
Phones/brands are nothing much more than an assembly chain.

Software is where Asians really are lacking in and is probably the most sophisticated bit/top of the chain. Once they get big enough, countries will build supply chains. America, Japan, South Korea, Germany (though they don't have any phone brands widely known nor produce them) and China have sufficient component suppliers to build a phone.

Make no mistake, Samsung and Huawei have come a long way since the early days of smart phones, to the extent neither now solely rely on Qualcomm for chips, both able to produce their own ARM based designs. Still not as good as Qualcomm overall but there is no longer a a total reliance.

Americans - Apple and Google are well on the software front, in fact, they have an iron grip. Samsung tried and failed with the Tizen OS simply because it struggled to get compatibility or a decent enough eco system. When you think about it, they were smart enough to focus on the software....hardware can be easily duplicated somewhat by China...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,561 posts, read 2,644,001 times
Reputation: 2541
The empire is on the rise, the land of the rising sun rises as the eclipse ends;

https://www.google.com/amp/m.economi...w/60160850.cms
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2017, 07:38 PM
 
117 posts, read 64,160 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Korea developed the same way as Japan did and pretty much what China is/was doing, i.e. using the export driven model whilst closing the domestic market off or killing foreign imports by slapping on huge tariffs. Domestic companies then tie up with whoever the market leader is and then absorb and hopefully disseminate enough technology to produce or catchup to the world's best. Japanese companies absorbed America and West German technology, the Koreans did it with the Japanese. The Chinese basically got their tech off American & European companies...
I highly doubt any company in the world will share their knowledge or transfer their knowledge with others especially their competitors unless they are stupid enough to kill themselves. I highly doubt investors or shareholders in their right mind allow any CEO to do that. Maybe they sell license components to China, but all license components especially electronics are designed in such a complicated and tricky way as to hide or protect their true design from others to steal.

In the early 1970, Russians once wanted to help China to build jet fighters. They set up factories in China. But they had their own people from USSR control all aspects of operations. They didn't let any Chinese have any access to their aircraft blueprints and schematics. They hired some illiterate workers in China to do all the assembly works in the factories. All aircraft components were shipped to China from USSR. When they left China for good because of a minor border war with China, China left with no technical know-how knowledge to build even a basic aircraft. China then had to do a lot of R&D on their own to figure all the in-outs by trial and error.

Most techs in China are developed by their own R&D. China spends approximately 2% to 3% of its GDP each year on R&D. They also have tons of scientists and engineers and a million more each years as they graduate from college to join in the force. China high speed train company once incorporated imported foreign-ed components in its high speed train for improvement in efficient and speed performance. They bought licensed components products from Germany, Japan and Canada. But later they found it was too expensive to use them when they were expanding. They resorted to hire 10,000 scientists and engineers in China to develop everything on their own from scratch. Thanks to many years of hard works of experimenting, now its high speed train is the fastest in the world (350 KM/H) and its rail system is the largest in the world and it is still improving. They have a very robust R&D department.

Last edited by davidmun; 08-23-2017 at 07:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2017, 08:47 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,387 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
I highly doubt any company in the world will share their knowledge or transfer their knowledge with others especially their competitors unless they are stupid enough to kill themselves. I highly doubt investors or shareholders in their right mind allow any CEO to do that. Maybe they sell license components to China, but all license components especially electronics are designed in such a complicated and tricky way as to hide or protect their true design from others to steal.

In the early 1970, Russians once wanted to help China to build jet fighters. They set up factories in China. But they had their own people from USSR control all aspects of operations. They didn't let any Chinese have any access to their aircraft blueprints and schematics. They hired some illiterate workers in China to do all the assembly works in the factories. All aircraft components were shipped to China from USSR. When they left China for good because of a minor border war with China, China left with no technical know-how knowledge to build even a basic aircraft. China then had to do a lot of R&D on their own to figure all the in-outs by trial and error.

Most techs in China are developed by their own R&D. China spends approximately 2% to 3% of its GDP each year on R&D. They also have tons of scientists and engineers and a million more each years as they graduate from college to join in the force. China high speed train company once incorporated imported foreign-ed components in its high speed train for improvement in efficient and speed performance. They bought licensed components products from Germany, Japan and Canada. But later they found it was too expensive to use them when they were expanding. They resorted to hire 10,000 scientists and engineers in China to develop everything on their own from scratch. Thanks to many years of hard works of experimenting, now its high speed train is the fastest in the world (350 KM/H) and its rail system is the largest in the world and it is still improving. They have a very robust R&D department.
Well, yes and no. A lot of the time a lot of European/Nth American and Japanese businesses were obsessed with the last frontier markets of China 1.3 bil population etc. China had the clout to say to hand over your tech for a share of our market. Like all business transactions, one party tries to outsmart the other and gain the edge. China offered tax incentives, rent free clauses for years and a potentially huge market but in exchange they wanted companies to tie up with local companies and transfer technologies. The West offered management and more importantly technical skills in exchange.

The whole premise was that the West tried to offload older generation technology and hoped that by the time the Chinese caught up, they'd still be 1-2 generations behind and not really a direct competitor. For example, the thinking way by the time the Chinese mastered assembling laptops the world market would be on tablets. Initially Chinese companies were happy to sell inferior or technologically superseded products to their huge local and inland markets....however, they quickly found out they also needed to go global in order to really make big dollars and survive.

The West really underestimated the depth and pace in which the Chinese caught up, many of their development were really as they found out, was to buy a foreign company and learn the technology off them rather than self R&D, very few local tie ups had the impetus to learn off the foreign partner, except in the field of Bullet Trains.

As for the Russian example, by the 70s China had just got off their feet from some very bad Mao experiments. They didn't even have enough to survive let alone attempt to compete against the Russians. Today as you pointed out, education is up, engineering talent and capability is up. You can't deny many of China's champions today learnt off the West/Japanese but on the other hand, you can't just sit around and do nothing and rely on the Western partners to instill tech into you either, they are not a charity....

Curiously, these were some of the Asian companies and who they learnt off:

Denso - Bosch
Hyundai - Mitsubishi
Huawei - Motorola/Qualcomm
Geely - Volvo

If you ask me, I think China does have the talent and capability and probably now the market (both at home and abroad) to become market leaders in certain field, but how the government manages this will ultimately determine one day whether a Geely becomes a Toyota and whether a Huawei will one day become a Samsung or Sony.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top