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Old 09-26-2017, 11:43 AM
 
116 posts, read 64,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Koreans and Chinese (from my experiences which are limited I should add) seem less racist than Japanese, or at least exclusionary if that makes any sense. When I was in High school (one of the best in the country) we had a lot of Asian students from abroad including Chinese (mostly mainland but also Hong Kong and Taiwan) Koreans, etc who were really nice and melded into our culture as best they could. On the other hand I only knew one Japanese kid who was always bashing American culture (to our faces) sulked around a lot, and was just waiting to leave and go home, which he did eventually.


I don't know, maybe it has to do with Japan being a richer and cleaner society making them less impressed with other countries or maybe they just like Japan and don't want to leave.

I don't think it's the relative wealth of the countries that explains why there are fewer Japanese per se than the Koreans and Chinese in America. I'm an Asian-American, and these days I see that the newer immigrants of Chinese and Koreans coming to America are just as rich if not richer than the Japanese coming to move. Some of the newer Chinese people coming to America are QUITE RICH, if not SOME OF THE RICHEST in the world. They are buying all of the property here on the East Coast that used to belong to the upper-middle white class folks, and that's driving up the housing prices.

Actually, among the new groups of Asian Americans, it's the RICHER ones that have the mobility to move to a new country like America, and the poorer ones stay behind, not because they want to but because they simply can't. I'd imagine it's something like that in Japan too, plus the fact that the Japanese have always been very exclusive and have a rather very insular mindset.

I've noticed from working with my Japanese colleagues that they don't try to assimilate into American culture not because they perceive their own Japanese culture to be superior, but because of two insurmountable factors: 1) a huge language barrier 2) a correspondingly huge cultural barrier. The Chinese are very good (compared to the Japanese) at overcoming both, historically. The Japanese on the other hand, are maybe not as good, due to their cultural upbringing that emphasizes conformity, passivity and quiet modesty. American culture on the other hand emphasizes self-reliance, independence and some aggression on one's part to stand out.

Just look at the Asian composition at the top Ivy-league schools in the U.S.; what percentage of them are Japanese, let alone Japanese Americans? Right now, much of the STEM fields are dominated by the Chinese, followed by South Koreans and Indians. You don't see Japanese people anymore studying abroad in America or other countries, and that's hurting their outlook as a global power. The reason why Sony lost out to Samsung and iphone is because they were too insular in their outlook and didn't think that smartphones would catch on, since the rest of Japan was still stuck on folder phones.

There's no denying that Japan is still a very relevant power economically in Asia. But times have changed, and no doubt South Korea has done a great job catching up and now surpassing in some fields, especially in the realm of contemporary culture.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:57 PM
 
277 posts, read 205,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attisbons View Post
I don't think it's the relative wealth of the countries that explains why there are fewer Japanese per se than the Koreans and Chinese in America. I'm an Asian-American, and these days I see that the newer immigrants of Chinese and Koreans coming to America are just as rich if not richer than the Japanese coming to move. Some of the newer Chinese people coming to America are QUITE RICH, if not SOME OF THE RICHEST in the world. They are buying all of the property here on the East Coast that used to belong to the upper-middle white class folks, and that's driving up the housing prices.

Actually, among the new groups of Asian Americans, it's the RICHER ones that have the mobility to move to a new country like America, and the poorer ones stay behind, not because they want to but because they simply can't. I'd imagine it's something like that in Japan too, plus the fact that the Japanese have always been very exclusive and have a rather very insular mindset.

I've noticed from working with my Japanese colleagues that they don't try to assimilate into American culture not because they perceive their own Japanese culture to be superior, but because of two insurmountable factors: 1) a huge language barrier 2) a correspondingly huge cultural barrier. The Chinese are very good (compared to the Japanese) at overcoming both, historically. The Japanese on the other hand, are maybe not as good, due to their cultural upbringing that emphasizes conformity, passivity and quiet modesty. American culture on the other hand emphasizes self-reliance, independence and some aggression on one's part to stand out.

Just look at the Asian composition at the top Ivy-league schools in the U.S.; what percentage of them are Japanese, let alone Japanese Americans? Right now, much of the STEM fields are dominated by the Chinese, followed by South Koreans and Indians. You don't see Japanese people anymore studying abroad in America or other countries, and that's hurting their outlook as a global power. The reason why Sony lost out to Samsung and iphone is because they were too insular in their outlook and didn't think that smartphones would catch on, since the rest of Japan was still stuck on folder phones.

There's no denying that Japan is still a very relevant power economically in Asia. But times have changed, and no doubt South Korea has done a great job catching up and now surpassing in some fields, especially in the realm of contemporary culture.
I've been impressed by South Korea to get up to this stage to be honest, but again I wouldn't be discounting Japan. The latter is just doing what the Americans went through in the 60s and 70s - first it was the TV brands, then electronics then cars that eventually lost to the Japanese. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung/Hyundai will lose clout in some fields by 2030 and become either irrelevant or even gone.

Japanese tech still matters but I think branding is what earns big bucks...Japan imho still has a good 5-10 years on Korea. Look at the vapourising machine that makes OLEDs, only Canon and one other Japanese company can provide that. Samsung still use Sony sensors even in the s7/8s, heck, Japanese still dominate in fields like miniturised capacitors (Murata), general machinery to make electronics, trains, optical equipment, medical equipment (though they lag behind Germany), robotics. In essence, they are retreating to less visible fields.

Back on the point of immigration, it is the relative comfort and lifestyle that a country offers rather than how "wealthy" a country is in $ terms which draws immigration. Japan developed way before China and South Korea, hence less emigration...added to that since there were more opportunities, why risk and relocate your family to a foreign land without a huge gain? For many Chinese in the past and present, despite a different set of issues, the West provides a massive leap in terms of quality of life for not exactly a lot of sacrifice, at least these days.

Further to the fact that in general Chinese assimilate better, it's always been in their culture, China is a hodgepodge of different people/cultures, an Asian version of a poorer America if you'd like. Japan/Korea is much more homogeneous.
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:42 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,273,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Koreans and Chinese (from my experiences which are limited I should add) seem less racist than Japanese, or at least exclusionary if that makes any sense. When I was in High school (one of the best in the country) we had a lot of Asian students from abroad including Chinese (mostly mainland but also Hong Kong and Taiwan) Koreans, etc who were really nice and melded into our culture as best they could. On the other hand I only knew one Japanese kid who was always bashing American culture (to our faces) sulked around a lot, and was just waiting to leave and go home, which he did eventually.


I don't know, maybe it has to do with Japan being a richer and cleaner society making them less impressed with other countries or maybe they just like Japan and don't want to leave.
Yes, to some extend Japan is kind of like France in Europe - they have their own thing which they are comfortable with and find it hard to go out of it into a different cultural setting long term. They are happy with their own culture and system, which they think make more sense, are less likely to emigrate (you never see a French district in any American city), and when they go abroad, they always go back to their own country. It is not about richer/cleaner. The Germans are a lot more likely to move to a different country than the French.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:23 AM
 
729 posts, read 382,672 times
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Hum but it may be a recently stuff guys. Between 1908 and1960 half million of Japanese emigrated to Brazil a westerner country
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:23 PM
 
10 posts, read 7,919 times
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Quote:
"but have you seen pictures of Japan at the end of World War II? "Barren wasteland" sums it up quite nicely."
South Korea was even worse after the Korean War. Just say'in.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Manhattan, NYC
902 posts, read 632,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I'd say no. There are still some very poor areas in S Korea. The Korean port cities have been wealthy for quite some time, under Imperial Japan they were well developed. So, no S Korea was never like Sudan imo.

You can find old pictures of Korea and it was a decently nice place 100 years ago.

S Korea is a nice country and it may surpass Japan someday relatively per capita, but not for now. S Korea and Japan have a similar problem of not many natural resources. They've done great with what they have, but just like other developed countries, manufacturing will mostly leave eventually once the cost gets too high.
But then, in 1950, there was a specific war, so they went backward. The progress done at that point can in nowhere be neglected, that's true. It doesn't mean that it surpasses Japan right now but again, trends are looking fine.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Closer than you think!
2,145 posts, read 3,323,027 times
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After being stationed in both countries. The short answer is no. Japan's technology is still ahead of the rest of the world.
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,521 posts, read 3,105,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Yes, to some extend Japan is kind of like France in Europe - they have their own thing which they are comfortable with and find it hard to go out of it into a different cultural setting long term. They are happy with their own culture and system, which they think make more sense, are less likely to emigrate (you never see a French district in any American city), and when they go abroad, they always go back to their own country. It is not about richer/cleaner. The Germans are a lot more likely to move to a different country than the French.
New orleans?
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,949 posts, read 27,371,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
New orleans?
True though it's not really populated with people of French origin. Though parts of Louisiana an hour or two west of there are.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,686 posts, read 3,655,932 times
Reputation: 16625
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
South Korea came from a barren wasteland to what it is today having at been one point as rich as Sudan. To get from zero to hero, in fact taking on and winning against your teacher/master (Japan) in some aspects in my opinion is amazing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Not at all to diminish South Korea's achievements . . . but have you seen pictures of Japan at the end of World War II? "Barren wasteland" sums it up quite nicely.

The fact is, both Japan and South Korea have done amazingly well for themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyungHo View Post
South Korea was even worse after the Korean War. Just say'in.
Japan and South Korea were in miserable shape after World War II and the Korean War, respectively. Japan brought its misery upon itself, but that's beside the point. I don't know if anyone has quantified the relative destruction of the two countries for comparative purposes, but no one is disputing that both places were flat on their backs in the immediate post-war periods and have since risen to amazing heights.
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