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Old 10-12-2017, 08:55 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,658,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles XII View Post
He's actually kind of right. I wouldn't say the US has the worst construction in the world, but they use almost exclusively materials like wood and paper, even when building tall residential towers. It's quite scary, as you can imagine a fire starting on the first floor would quickly spread and burn down the whole building when the whole frame is made out of wood. You wouldn't want to be on the 10th floor when that happens.

Regular villas are wood framed as well even in hurricane zones, hence there is so much destruction every time there is a hurricane or a tornado.

America would do well by looking at how they build in Mexico or Europe. Usually steel or concrete frame. Much sturdier. Protects against things like mold better, and you don't hear your neighbors as much.
There are not 10 story buildings made out of entire wood frames. You'd be hard pressed to find anything over 2 stories made out of wood frame. The vast majority of commercial construction is concrete foundations and steel frames and it's been that way for 50+ years. Most framing is now metal and not wood for the last 10-15 years. It's pretty rare to use wood framing in commercial construction except for remodeling.

Single family homes are typically made from wood framing. Wood framed houses can be better insulated against cold and hot weather and can outperform concrete buildings in earthquakes as they allow give and take.

Concrete homes have advantages, but countries where labor is expensive, concrete homes get very expensive and that's why they are not common. In developing countries where labor is cheap, concrete and brick homes are more common because they are very labor intensive.

The reason China has a bad reputation for construction quality is back in the 60s-80s they'd leave out the rebar in their buildings and when an earthquake happened the buildings would just pancake on top of each other. Combine that with the fact that everyone lives in tenement style buildings and you'd hear about these earthquakes where 10,000+ people die. Most of those, if not all of them, have been demolished.

Construction standards have an international code. The US, China, and most countries follow the same codes and guidelines for construction. Problems arise, especially in commercial construction, when engineers or contractors can bribe state inspectors to pass buildings or designs that have issues, that can and does happen anywhere, but it's more common in developing countries. When you figure in how big China is and their corruption problems, it shouldn't be too surprising that some buildings will get shoved through with some under the table payments. Then 5 years later the building collapses and the state inspector gets executed.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:08 AM
 
88 posts, read 41,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
There are not 10 story buildings made out of entire wood frames. You'd be hard pressed to find anything over 2 stories made out of wood frame. The vast majority of commercial construction is concrete foundations and steel frames and it's been that way for 50+ years. Most framing is now metal and not wood for the last 10-15 years. It's pretty rare to use wood framing in commercial construction except for remodeling.

Single family homes are typically made from wood framing. Wood framed houses can be better insulated against cold and hot weather and can outperform concrete buildings in earthquakes as they allow give and take.

Concrete homes have advantages, but countries where labor is expensive, concrete homes get very expensive and that's why they are not common. In developing countries where labor is cheap, concrete and brick homes are more common because they are very labor intensive.

The reason China has a bad reputation for construction quality is back in the 60s-80s they'd leave out the rebar in their buildings and when an earthquake happened the buildings would just pancake on top of each other. Combine that with the fact that everyone lives in tenement style buildings and you'd hear about these earthquakes where 10,000+ people die. Most of those, if not all of them, have been demolished.

Construction standards have an international code. The US, China, and most countries follow the same codes and guidelines for construction. Problems arise, especially in commercial construction, when engineers or contractors can bribe state inspectors to pass buildings or designs that have issues, that can and does happen anywhere, but it's more common in developing countries. When you figure in how big China is and their corruption problems, it shouldn't be too surprising that some buildings will get shoved through with some under the table payments. Then 5 years later the building collapses and the state inspector gets executed.
Sorry, but this is just false. Maybe not 10 story buildings, but at least every 3-4 story building will have a wood frame. 99% of them. Some 5 story buildings as well. Sometimes they will use concrete framing for the ground/bottom floor and then wood framing for the rest of the floors.

Wood framed single family houses are not better insulated against cold or heat. Wood framed houses are the least insulated way to build and will have the most amount "bleed", which means it will protect and keep heat/cold out the worst out of all materials. The reason they build houses in stone in places like Mexico or Spain is because it is a very slow material to penetrate. This causes stone houses to be cold during the day when the sun is up, and warm during the night when it's cold outside. A wooden house will just have whatever temperature that is outside at that particular moment.

Concrete shouldn't be much more expensive to build, maybe 10-20%. America is literally the only place in the world (except perhaps Australia and Canada) where people still build houses with wood framing. UK, Scandinavia, Germany, France etc. are all countries with high labor costs and they still prefer to build their houses solidly.

You are right in that wood frame buildings protect against earthquakes though. So it would make sense if you are located in an earthquake zone. But most of American homes aren't located in those zones.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:42 PM
 
1,027 posts, read 635,464 times
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Just look at the damage a fire can do to entire North CA. The fire can literally wipe out entire cities in US. Doesn't that tell you about the quality of building materials in US? I haven't heard any fire that can even wipe out a single block in China
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:21 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,658,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles XII View Post
Sorry, but this is just false. Maybe not 10 story buildings, but at least every 3-4 story building will have a wood frame. 99% of them. Some 5 story buildings as well. Sometimes they will use concrete framing for the ground/bottom floor and then wood framing for the rest of the floors.

Wood framed single family houses are not better insulated against cold or heat. Wood framed houses are the least insulated way to build and will have the most amount "bleed", which means it will protect and keep heat/cold out the worst out of all materials. The reason they build houses in stone in places like Mexico or Spain is because it is a very slow material to penetrate. This causes stone houses to be cold during the day when the sun is up, and warm during the night when it's cold outside. A wooden house will just have whatever temperature that is outside at that particular moment.

Concrete shouldn't be much more expensive to build, maybe 10-20%. America is literally the only place in the world (except perhaps Australia and Canada) where people still build houses with wood framing. UK, Scandinavia, Germany, France etc. are all countries with high labor costs and they still prefer to build their houses solidly.

You are right in that wood frame buildings protect against earthquakes though. So it would make sense if you are located in an earthquake zone. But most of American homes aren't located in those zones.
You are wrong. My dad is an architect and I worked for him for 15+ years doing commercial construction. I have never seen a wooden commercial building over 3 floors, even most 1-2 floor commercial buildings have steel structures and steel framing. 3+ floor wooden buildings are incredibly rare. I'm sure a few exist, but you're not going to find many.

I don't think you know what you are talking about and you don't know how insulation works.

Masons in a country like Mexico or China probably make $4-5 an hour and I think I'm being optimistic there. In the US masons make $16-20 an hour. Labor in the US is at least 400% more expensive. That's also why US construction companies hire Mexicans to do concrete work and other masonry work.

No, the U.K., Scandinavia, Germany, and France mostly building wooden homes with brick or stucco siding.

I'm not saying wooden framed homes are better or worse then concrete. They both have advantages and disadvantages. My main point is concrete homes are much more expensive then wooden homes in developed countries, and almost all commercial buildings use steel structures and steel framing.

The other poster is barely worth replying too, like a concrete home is going to survive a massive fire or hurricane. Just look at Puerto Rico, their concrete homes got demolished. Look at St Maartin or Barbados, their concrete buildings got decimated, 90%+ of the buildings in Barbados were destroyed.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:40 PM
 
1,373 posts, read 787,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
No, the U.K., Scandinavia, Germany, and France mostly building wooden homes with brick or stucco siding.
That's nonsense. In Germany, France and the UK wooden homes with brick or stucco siding are extremely rare, almost non-existing. Concrete buildings with wooden siding are much more common than wooden buildings with brick siding. Prefabricated houses are often build partially with wood-based materials.

Quote:
I'm not saying wooden framed homes are better or worse then concrete. They both have advantages and disadvantages. My main point is concrete homes are much more expensive then wooden homes in developed countries, and almost all commercial buildings use steel structures and steel framing.
In most developed countries concrete homes are cheaper than wooden homes. The reason why concrete buildings in the U.S. are so much more expensive than wooden buildings is, that it's so uncommon to build concrete buildings in the U.S. It's for example the complete opposite in Germany, where wooden homes are normally more expensive.
Commercial buildings in Europe are mostly build with reinforced concrete, steel structures and steel framing is very rare.

Nothing wrong with building wooden homes, if they are build properly. The wall thickness of the wooden frame of a prefabricated home in Germany is more than twice the timber frame structure in the U.S. The exterior walls in American homes appears to be paper-thin.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,473 posts, read 21,331,279 times
Reputation: 24352
The lumber companies in the U.S. are powerful lobbying forces on a state, city and Federal level, and many believe their lies: more expensive to build with concrete. The big advantage to wooden construction is speed of construction. And when one of these fire traps goes up in flames, they laugh all the way to the bank.

Now they're building apartment buildings all over the U.S., with a concrete pad on the 2nd floor, and 4-5 floors of wood on top. I wouldn't live in one of these fire traps if the rent was free! Fire sprinklers! What good would they do you if there was an earthquake in California and the water is shut off!

I had a house designed for me in northern Baja, and every stitch of that house was concrete, roof and all. My architect told me: we don't do wood here in Mexico as it's candy to the termites! And how many houses across the U.S. are being eaten up with termites every day, little by little!

Here, in Las Vegas, in the newer areas, they build house so close to one another you can all but shake hands with your neighbors, and given our wind blasters here, at times, with winds hitting 50-60+MPH, one of these days one of these houses will catch on fire, and Poof! There goes the entire neighborhood!

I've been to China, and I've seen some lots of quality construction over there. Construction I trust more than in the U.S.!
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