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Old 12-18-2017, 09:11 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,640,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Well, there's 1-2 posters on the CD forum who persist in using "Oriental" to describe people in spite of being constantly corrected on that (I attribute that to stubbornness and trying to be knee-jerk "non-PC", even trying to argue about sematics and history). And yes it is more archaic rather than insulting. Though those who persist in using it despite being corrected are just being inconsiderate, outdated, and just rude - when people tell you how they want to be referred, to, LISTEN and follow along, out of common courtesy.

I have no problem when it's used to describe objects like rugs
Most of the English speaking world uses Oriental and Asian interchangeably. The US and Canada are the exceptions where Oriental is not commonly used. I wouldn’t take it as a word to be insulted by. The Orient is a region that has no clear definition and can be used to mean different regions of Asia or even all of Asia. I grew up in the Orthodox Church and we view the Orient from the holy lands all the way to Japan. Even the Byzantines were at one time considered Orientals and they have a lot of Europeans ancestry.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Elysium
6,584 posts, read 3,638,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Most of the English speaking world uses Oriental and Asian interchangeably. The US and Canada are the exceptions where Oriental is not commonly used. I wouldn’t take it as a word to be insulted by. The Orient is a region that has no clear definition and can be used to mean different regions of Asia or even all of Asia. I grew up in the Orthodox Church and we view the Orient from the holy lands all the way to Japan. Even the Byzantines were at one time considered Orientals and they have a lot of Europeans ancestry.
I remember first hearing that oriental refers to objects and Asian to people in 1979 on UCLA's campus. By Y2K with Internet message boards I was one of those who tried to educate British posters who used Oriental for East Asians and Asian for South Asians. They thought we were crazy and wondered how we differentiated.

I guess if I switched to the local Latinos lingo where all East Asians are Chinese it would fit more closely to British English and not American English where oriental referred to as thing if you or your teacher went to school when the political turn happened.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,357,013 times
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The "person vs item" thing is archaic nowadays, since at this point, in North America, "Oriental" is almost totally out of use and an object, food, or thing from Asia will have an "Asian" descriptor, too... Asian food, Asian decor, Asian style, etc. I only ever heard "Oriental" used by older folks in the States and I've only ever heard it from people from the UK or South Africa over here in China (I've had it explained that to a lot of people in those countries, "Asian" means South Asian i.e. Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, etc, while "Oriental" means East Asian).

I'm 34 and don't really recall ever using the term "Oriental." I always used "Asian." I spent most of my elementary school years in South Seattle, where there was a huge Asian population, and that's what they referred to themselves as, so that's what I did.
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Old 12-19-2017, 06:56 AM
 
949 posts, read 612,152 times
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I can only speak for myself, as a person who may be racially classified as Oriental.

It depends on context and intent. If spoken by an older person, or someone who had lived a more sheltered life, or amongst folks where it us commonly used, AND the intent is not malicious, then I take no offense. I will just be struck by its archaic usage, but otherwise will not be bothered.

Similarly, I take no offense about questions about my ethnic origins, in the appropriate context. I'm happy to answer, because I recognize a relatively benign curiosity.

I also recognize that I do both of the above myself: use archaic terms, and ask folks about their ethnic origins out of curiously.

I also oftentimes inadvertently put my foot in my mouth, appropriate local terms I like, and probably a few other things that may offend some and not others. I recognize that any attempt to force others to act, think, or behave according to my criteria will be probably be counter-productive and generate a backlash out of resentment. I've witnessed this in my dealing with my kids, and within myself.

Just my 2 cents, y'all.
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:10 AM
 
949 posts, read 612,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
It seems to me that Asians are almost always less happy than others.

Japan is a pretty decent country, affluent, safe, clean. Yes they have their fair share of problems, but they are doing pretty good. Japanese seem to be less happy than citizens from other developed countries. Suicide, depression..

Suicide rate in South Korea is actually higher than Japan. The prosperity doesn't help. In the past decades, South Korea advanced from an extremely poor country to a decent developed country, they should have good reasons to feel happy.

Speaking of developing countries, China isn't much worse than Mexico economically. But Mexicans look much happier than Chinese. In California, Chinese immigrants are far less happy than Mexicans, despite higher income.
Which Asians, only those listed?

You may argue that they are no more or less happy than other cultures; they may just express it differently.

In some Asian countries, they may be unhappier materially, yet happier (deeper contentment) spiritually due to stronger familial and community bonds. So the happy/unhappy ratio may be similar to other countries, depending on the criteria applied.

For S. Korea and China, some of it may be due to coming out of prolonged poverty from wars, with all the hardships it entails. So the extreme drive to succeed academically and accumulate financial and material wealth may be a temporary phase of rapidly developing and developed countries. The pendulum swinging to the other extreme.

The grass is always greener on the other side syndrome.

Last edited by mingna; 12-19-2017 at 07:57 AM..
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Elysium
6,584 posts, read 3,638,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
The "person vs item" thing is archaic nowadays, since at this point, in North America, "Oriental" is almost totally out of use and an object, food, or thing from Asia will have an "Asian" descriptor, too... Asian food, Asian decor, Asian style, etc. I only ever heard "Oriental" used by older folks in the States and I've only ever heard it from people from the UK or South Africa over here in China (I've had it explained that to a lot of people in those countries, "Asian" means South Asian i.e. Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, etc, while "Oriental" means East Asian).

I'm 34 and don't really recall ever using the term "Oriental." I always used "Asian." I spent most of my elementary school years in South Seattle, where there was a huge Asian population, and that's what they referred to themselves as, so that's what I did.
I should have figured a better safe than sorry ethic would emerge. Remembering back Oriental saw its last usage in the porn and massage industries before massage went mostly clean
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:52 AM
 
2,601 posts, read 1,937,821 times
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In general, people are less happy when they have higher expectation. So, is not just the Asians. You might observe most Asians as less happy, but there are Asians that are happy because they realize what life is about, as well as the purpose of life.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,672 posts, read 3,647,750 times
Reputation: 16611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I remember first hearing that oriental refers to objects and Asian to people in 1979 on UCLA's campus. By Y2K with Internet message boards I was one of those who tried to educate British posters who used Oriental for East Asians and Asian for South Asians. They thought we were crazy and wondered how we differentiated.

I guess if I switched to the local Latinos lingo where all East Asians are Chinese it would fit more closely to British English and not American English where oriental referred to as thing if you or your teacher went to school when the political turn happened.
Herein lies the problem when using "Asian" as a term for one particular racial group whose roots are on a particular portion of the continent of Asia. What do you call everyone else from that continent?

In America, "Asian" means East Asian, and usually Southeast Asian. What do we call South Asians? Usually "Indian" (since that's the numerically largest group of South Asians), but that's not fair to the Pakistanis and the rest who are not Indian.

In England, "Asian" means South Asian. But what do they call East Asians? "Chinese," since they're the numerically largest group of East Asians? But that's not fair to the Koreans, Japanese, etc. are not Chinese. "Oriental"? But that's considered insulting, at least by some.

Personally, I wish the terms "East Asian," "South Asian," etc. would come into standard usage as racial descriptors. It would solve a lot of confusion.

Maybe the inability of other people to decide what to call them is what makes Asians less happy!
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,414 posts, read 1,673,386 times
Reputation: 8038
I have a great deal of skepticism about those polls that purport to tell me which countries are happy. Mainly, because of language. The respondents are asked in their own language, and the word that corresponds to "happy" can carry with a lot of different connotations in different languages. And very different life factors can be weighted differently in any culture's interpretation of what "happy" might include or exclude.
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:56 PM
 
Location: DFW
6,800 posts, read 11,772,651 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Where on earth do you get the idea that it is "politically correct in the US to mock and taunt Asians"?

What an outrageous and untrue statement!
Most of it is more implicit and subtle these days, if it exists at all.

I've lived in the US for over 30 years and can count on a single hand the # of times I remember being explicitly taunted or treated in a racist way after the 90s.. but then again, I lived in California from 2001 to earlier this year.

And when I visited Europe several years back, I was surprised how many people blatantly made derogatory comments at me on the streets.. something I NEVER experienced even in rural and closed-minded places in the US even back in the 80s and 90s.
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