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Old 11-06-2017, 08:09 PM
 
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Interesting the variety of responses here.

You can say all of the above with the addition that the Chinese have migrated millions of people into that region in order to assimilate them more into the rest of China. China has also been successful in isolating Tibet from the rest of the world to a certain degree - it's difficult to get in (I tried about 15 years ago from Nepal), and it's almost impossible to get out. Yeah, this it's still a 1950s jack-boot East Berlin Police State mentality there, it ain't free wheelin' Shangai - they still shoot Tibetians that try to flee Tibet into Nepal or India, or at least they did as of ten years ago.

No more celebrity rock concerts, it's just not trendy anymore. Meanwhile ethnic Tibetian monks use the traditional protest methods of burning themselves to death quite regularly there. Sad to say it gets very little coverage in the west.

During my China business trips I always check the local internet by entering "Free Tibet" to see how long before it shuts down.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:00 PM
 
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You can't even enter "Free Tibet" anymore in China because Google is blocked.......lol
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:27 PM
 
117 posts, read 64,505 times
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Originally Posted by iron_stick View Post
Had China stayed a Japanese colony, maybe they would have fared better?
Japan has never colonized China, but Japan has controlled some of parts China though. Japan sent majority of their military mights to China. They thought they could catch China in couple months, but ten years later they were still fought a war with China and China's sides (CCP & KMT) were winning. They soon realized they had made a huge fatal mistake. If they had never sent most of their military forces to China, they might have had a chance to defeat USA, and most of Asia including India would have been fallen under their control. China war has tied up most of their war machine resources for decades. They didn't have any other major forces to fight other fronts. They lost as a result.

Free Tibet is mostly a baby boomers generation thing. Now they are growing old and many of them have already retired. They don't have energy to do this anymore. Generation X and Millennials don't really care. They are into YouTube, Facebook and other social media things.

Dalai Lama is not a Tibetan. He is an ethnic Han Chinese. He never wants Tibet to be free from China. He thinks Tibet is a part of China. He just wants China to give him and all the Tibetan exiles a chance to go back to Tibet. That is all. It is interesting to know why the journalists in the West never have mentioned this fact.

Last edited by davidmun; 11-07-2017 at 12:00 AM..
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,657 posts, read 2,678,894 times
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Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
Japan has never colonized China, but Japan has controlled some of parts China though. Japan sent majority of their military mights to China. They thought they could catch China in couple months, but ten years later they were still fought a war with China and China's sides (CCP & KMT) were winning. They soon realized they had made a huge mistake. If they had never sent their military to China, they might have had a chance to defeat USA, and most of Asia including India would have been fallen under their control. China made them diversify most of their war machine resources to there. They lost as a result.

Free Tibet is mostly a baby boomers generation thing. Now they are growing old and many of them have already retired. They don't have energy to do this anymore. Generation X and Millennials don't really care. They are into YouTube, Facebook and other social media things.

Dalai Lama is not a Tibetan. He is an ethnic Han Chinese. He never wants Tibet to be free from China. He thinks Tibet is a part of China. He just wants China to give him and all the Tibetan exiles a chance to go back to Tibet. That is all. It is interesting to know why the journalists in the West never have mentioned this fact.
Nonsense, they had taken the capital and ALL of China’s major cities.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Nonsense, they had taken the capital and ALL of China’s major cities.
Not all major cities. Maybe some major cities. Most of the rural areas were not under the Japanese control. Most China forces retreated into rural. They were fighting constantly with Japanese. That was where Chinese CCP Mao came in. He got support from both rural and urban. In fact, KMT have never wanted to fight Japanese. They were trying to get rid of CCP. Had CCP and KMT united against Japanese forces, they probably kicked them out in couple years or destroyed them completely instead of let them lingering on for ten years or so. The only force fighting with Japanese forces was CCP under Mao. That was why Mao and his CCP successfully rising to power because most Chinese viewed them as the hero fighting Japanese.

Nevertheless, that is another topic. Don't want to digress from this topic.

Last edited by davidmun; 11-07-2017 at 12:30 AM..
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
Most China forces retreated into rural. They were fighting constantly with Japanese. That was where Chinese CCP Mao came in. He got support from both rural and urban. In fact, KMT have never wanted to fight Japanese. They were trying to get rid of CCP. Had CCP and KMT united against Japanese forces, they probably kicked them out in couple years or destroyed them completely instead of lingering on for ten years or so. Nevertheless, that is another topic. Don't want to digress from this topic.
All discussions go full circle, if Chiang Kai-shek had won Tibet would be free today and people could google whatever they want.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
the dalai lama is an independent figure who has said the CIA support in the 60s made things worse for Tibet and that thinks they never cared about the actual people.

Also he was best friends with Mao.
So Dalai Lama cared about the people? Is it why he and his family owned hundreds of Tibetan slaves? Is it why when he fled China he carried tons of solid gold?

He cared about the people? Free Tibet? Was Tibet ever free?

DowntheCrookedPath: The Dalai Lama's Gold
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
So Dalai Lama cared about the people? Is it why he and his family owned hundreds of Tibetan slaves? Is it why when he fled China he carried tons of solid gold?

He cared about the people? Free Tibet? Was Tibet ever free?

DowntheCrookedPath: The Dalai Lama's Gold
I read your link and still I think you are too anti-Dalai lama.

Would you have wanted him to leave the gold of the Tibetan government for the PRC to sell and build more slave factories.

Also along the lines of your criticism of American foreign Policy what Right did China have to invade Tibet in the first place? Were you ok with that? Mao had people to feed but instead he used resources to invade and kill Tibetans, a region that had NO needed resources that China could used to help its own people.

Of course the Dalai Lama wouldn’t bow to Chinese rule he knew they’d destroy Buddhism and insert a fake Dalai Lama. Today Tibet ranks lower in terms of freedom than every country in the world except for SYRIA!
And yes, that includes North Korea.

Of course the Dalai Lama wanted money to survive after he was kicked out of his home country, people need to live and he is only Human, also he represented a movement and if he let himself be killed by Chinese authorities then he could do nothing to support his people.

He is a kind mind who has dedicated his life to helping others and does not even want full independence for Tibet, don’t let Chinese state propaganda blind you, they’d do anything to make sure he looks bad.

Also you misconstrued the Slave statement, it was part of Tibet’s culture and no where near as bad as the slave labor in China.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:28 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I read your link and still I think you are too anti-Dalai lama.

Would you have wanted him to leave the gold of the Tibetan government for the PRC to sell and build more slave factories.

Also along the lines of your criticism of American foreign Policy what Right did China have to invade Tibet in the first place? Were you ok with that? Mao had people to feed but instead he used resources to invade and kill Tibetans, a region that had NO needed resources that China could used to help its own people.

Of course the Dalai Lama wouldn’t bow to Chinese rule he knew they’d destroy Buddhism and insert a fake Dalai Lama. Today Tibet ranks lower in terms of freedom than every country in the world except for SYRIA!
And yes, that includes North Korea.

Of course the Dalai Lama wanted money to survive after he was kicked out of his home country, people need to live and he is only Human, also he represented a movement and if he let himself be killed by Chinese authorities then he could do nothing to support his people.

He is a kind mind who has dedicated his life to helping others and does not even want full independence for Tibet, don’t let Chinese state propaganda blind you, they’d do anything to make sure he looks bad.

Also you misconstrued the Slave statement, it was part of Tibet’s culture and no where near as bad as the slave labor in China.
The issue is not about where I want the gold to be. It is about why the hell would Dalai Lama has so much gold in the first place.

OK, you can say the PRC "invaded" Tibet (ignoring the fact that Tibet was incorporated into China centuries ago), but tell me whether the lives of Tibetan people were better or worse after the "invasion"? Don't forget before the invasion, 90% of Tibetans are slaves, didn't have any personal freedom and were considered properties of their owns. And you prefer Tibet remain a serfdom like that under Dalai Lama? Really?

Destroy buddhism? Seriously? You talk as if Dalai Lama is the protector of Buddhism. Where in Buddihism does it allow a person to own dozens of, if not hundreds of slaves, forcing them to work for you while not enjoying any freedom or human rights? He is a "kind man"? Maybe for you, but not for the slaves under his ruling. That is the vast majority of Tibet.

He needed money to survive... who the hell needs 5 tons of gold to survive?

I misconstrued the slave statement? It is part of the Tibet culture? OMG... It was also an American culture to have slaves prior to 1865, why not keep it?

"In 1957, the Chinese leaders decided to end slavery in Tibet. Then, only about 5 percent of the Tibetans were monks or nuns, or belonged to the small noble class or free nomadic hunting tribes. The rest were slaves who had to toil to feed the non-productive elite of the population. That's why the monasteries, the house of the elites, saw the abolition of slavery as a catastrophe."

It is not as bad as slave labour in China? ok...whatever slave labour exists in China, those people have all the personal freedom, can quit the job any time they want, and their children don't have to be slaves. Do you have ANY idea of what you are talking about? You can be anti-China as much as you want, but at least talk some senses and have some facts ready. OK, here is another reading for you. You seem to be completely ignorant of China's history as well as the present. (it is written by a Finnish journalist)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion...t_14297105.htm

If you don't come back to your senses, then don't bother replying, because apparently your agenda i set and facts are irrelevant to you.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:42 AM
 
12,345 posts, read 18,450,518 times
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Originally Posted by JakeinChina View Post
You can't even enter "Free Tibet" anymore in China because Google is blocked.......lol
Bing is available for English speakers...or use the sucky Chinese search engines if you speak mandarin. I can never figure out the "Great Firewall of China" internet. One day CityData forum was blocked. Some times a sight works one minute and then blocked the next, like my internet was PERSONALLY monitored by some Chinese at a desk somewhere saying "oh he can't be allowed to look at this" (and for that, and other things that have happened to me there such as the spyware that somehow gets added to my laptop after each business trip out there, I am not a bit surprised).
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