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Old 01-02-2018, 09:51 PM
 
2,776 posts, read 1,011,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Trump is right for America’s sake (much smarter and more straightforward than previous administrations). He is very wise in how he approaches the situation. He is honest with Americafirst.

I’m just saying this will not end well for the Iranian people and others in the west shouldn’t be hypocritical about it.
So what's your take on Trump slamming Iran on this issue and many others in the past?

As to how it will end? The playing field is wide open, but I doubt this specific protest will lead to anything. Nevertheless, a growing number of Persians are unsatisfied with the government and the reasons are manifold.

 
Old 01-02-2018, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,574 posts, read 2,644,001 times
Reputation: 2545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
So what's your take on Trump slamming Iran on this issue and many others in the past?

As to how it will end? The playing field is wide open, but I doubt this specific protest will lead to anything. Nevertheless, a growing number of Persians are unsatisfied with the government and the reasons are manifold.
Trump is using rhetoric to weaken Iran (which as the US president he should)
But if the regime falls there will be a power vacuum and the Saudis and the CIA will be ruthless in punishing Iran into servitude.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,366 posts, read 1,660,383 times
Reputation: 7940
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
No doubt Saudi Arabia is at least as bad. However they are beginning to reform too, although not near enough. Iran is an extremist nation, one who’s government has placed its violent destructive foreign policy above the needs of its own people, now the people of Iran are calling them on it. Iranians themselves are not religious zealots, nor do they hate the west, and they are quite educated and sophisticated. The fact that this backward government rules over them really is an insult to them and many of them have beeen plotting and waiting for years to try and bring it down. The Islamic republic is an anomaly in thier long Persian history. If not very soon, eventually it will be gone. When this happens we Americans need to forgive the last 40 years and give the Iranians a chance. When that government falls we should restore full diplomatic relations and lift all sanctions and restrictions. If we are not stupid about things Iran could quickly become an important friend to the USA.
There is a great deal of truth in what you say. But I think the conservative islamification of the general public in those countries it taking place without government influence. When I was a student at the Univeresity of Jordan, no more than 5% of the female students wore muslim dress. Today, 40 years later, a majority of them do. They did this on their own, by their own choice, not because the winds of governance changed and obliged or even encouraged them to. Still the same royal family. It did not take a backward government's zealots to insult them and compel the young Jordanian women to switch to Muslim dress. They did it on their own. Similarly in Indonesia, muslim dress was rare 20 years ago, and now it is the majority preference, with no government zealotry to enforce it. Muslim girls wear muslim dress as proudly as Christian girls wear a crucifix around their necks, not because zealots force them to.

You are absolutely right about America's enemies being of its own making, and every nation wouid be our friend if it were not for our own diplomatic pig-headed stupidity.
 
Old 01-03-2018, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,366 posts, read 1,660,383 times
Reputation: 7940
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
No doubt Saudi Arabia is at least as bad. However they are beginning to reform too, although not near enough. Iran is an extremist nation, one who’s government has placed its violent destructive foreign policy above the needs of its own people, now the people of Iran are calling them on it. Iranians themselves are not religious zealots, nor do they hate the west, and they are quite educated and sophisticated. The fact that this backward government rules over them really is an insult to them and many of them have beeen plotting and waiting for years to try and bring it down. The Islamic republic is an anomaly in thier long Persian history. If not very soon, eventually it will be gone. When this happens we Americans need to forgive the last 40 years and give the Iranians a chance. When that government falls we should restore full diplomatic relations and lift all sanctions and restrictions. If we are not stupid about things Iran could quickly become an important friend to the USA.
There is truth to much of what you have to say But it is government zealots who are enforcing more conservative islamification. The populace is doing that on their own. When I was a student at the University of Jordan 40 years ago, no more than 5% of the coeds wore muslim dress. With no change in government since, now a majority of them do.. Similarly, in Indonesia, muslim dress was rare 20 years ago, but is now common. Muslims have taken it upon themselves to islamify more conservatively, and have elected or tolerated governmental change in that direction.

But you are right, the USA is responsible for its own enemies, and would be embraced as a friend by every country if we were not so stupid about things.
 
Old 01-03-2018, 03:49 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,604 posts, read 10,666,988 times
Reputation: 5755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
Iran needs to become a secular republic. The Persians need to return to zohorastrianism and purge the Bedouin from their culture. The mullahs are like the Vichy french regime of WW2 except they represent the occupation of the 2nd caliphate dating back to the islamic conquest of persia.

They need to build zohorastrian fire temples at the bedoiun brainwashing centers. Especially right in the heart of Qom.

They also need to start using the Pahlavi script with romanized persian instead of the arabic script.

They should start using the P sound again because there is no P sound in arabic. That is why Farsi is called Farsi instead of Parsi.

Persian women should not be required to cover their head.

If persia becomes zohorastrian or godless, there would be a lot less problems in the middle east. persians would not have a weird obession with israel and they average persian would not care about palestine. Its all because of the mullahs.

It boggles my mind that persia continues to follow the way of bedoiun. Persians are nationalistic and hate arabs. The mullahs suppress the islamic invasions and they destroy preislamic persian sites.

If sassianids did not fall, you would not have ideological social problems in asia like the taliban, pakistan, moros in the phillipines or the shariah. The Battle of Nahāvand was a tragedy for asia.

I think persians should make persia zohorastrian again.



I don't think we're going to send troops into Iran. I'm not going to die for persians. are you?
Thank you for this display of your knowledge of deep history.

What you suggest has almost zero chance of happening, but it was refreshing to read, highlighting, in infrared, that this is in internal Iranian/Persian thing first and foremost.

As for geopolitics, my impression is that the US has an interest in maintaining a balance of power: in previous years, the slight tilt was in favor of Iran at the expense of the Saudis; the Saudis have paid up in the past year, now the tilt is in favor of Saudis.

Either way, the overall objective is to maintain a market for the military-industrial complex.

It works that way.

Good Luck!
 
Old 01-03-2018, 03:55 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,869 posts, read 6,242,907 times
Reputation: 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Trump is using rhetoric to weaken Iran (which as the US president he should)
But if the regime falls there will be a power vacuum and the Saudis and the CIA will be ruthless in punishing Iran into servitude.
Iran has been ruthless using Hezbollah in Lebanon and Israel, Houthis in Yemen and directly in Syria. Is the West the only ones that should "take one for the team"?
 
Old 01-03-2018, 04:00 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,869 posts, read 6,242,907 times
Reputation: 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
There is a great deal of truth in what you say. But I think the conservative islamification of the general public in those countries it taking place without government influence. When I was a student at the Univeresity of Jordan, no more than 5% of the female students wore muslim dress. Today, 40 years later, a majority of them do. They did this on their own, by their own choice, not because the winds of governance changed and obliged or even encouraged them to. Still the same royal family. It did not take a backward government's zealots to insult them and compel the young Jordanian women to switch to Muslim dress. They did it on their own. Similarly in Indonesia, muslim dress was rare 20 years ago, and now it is the majority preference, with no government zealotry to enforce it. Muslim girls wear muslim dress as proudly as Christian girls wear a crucifix around their necks, not because zealots force them to.

You are absolutely right about America's enemies being of its own making, and every nation wouid be our friend if it were not for our own diplomatic pig-headed stupidity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
There is truth to much of what you have to say But it is government zealots who are enforcing more conservative islamification. The populace is doing that on their own. When I was a student at the University of Jordan 40 years ago, no more than 5% of the coeds wore muslim dress. With no change in government since, now a majority of them do.. Similarly, in Indonesia, muslim dress was rare 20 years ago, but is now common. Muslims have taken it upon themselves to islamify more conservatively, and have elected or tolerated governmental change in that direction.

But you are right, the USA is responsible for its own enemies, and would be embraced as a friend by every country if we were not so stupid about things.
I think that the clergy, paid by Saudi dollars, controls the madrassahs and radicalized the population. And I understand your references to the U.S. to mean that we should throw Israel and other Western interests under the bus.

Last edited by Rozenn; 01-04-2018 at 02:17 PM.. Reason: User's request
 
Old 01-03-2018, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Ankara, Turkey
401 posts, read 184,271 times
Reputation: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Thank you for this display of your knowledge of deep history.

What you suggest has almost zero chance of happening, but it was refreshing to read, highlighting, in infrared, that this is in internal Iranian/Persian thing first and foremost.

As for geopolitics, my impression is that the US has an interest in maintaining a balance of power: in previous years, the slight tilt was in favor of Iran at the expense of the Saudis; the Saudis have paid up in the past year, now the tilt is in favor of Saudis.

Either way, the overall objective is to maintain a market for the military-industrial complex.

It works that way.

Good Luck!
Arms dealers, defense contractors seem to be the only winners of the warfare in the middle east.
 
Old 01-03-2018, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,574 posts, read 2,644,001 times
Reputation: 2545
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Thank you for this display of your knowledge of deep history.

What you suggest has almost zero chance of happening, but it was refreshing to read, highlighting, in infrared, that this is in internal Iranian/Persian thing first and foremost.

As for geopolitics, my impression is that the US has an interest in maintaining a balance of power: in previous years, the slight tilt was in favor of Iran at the expense of the Saudis; the Saudis have paid up in the past year, now the tilt is in favor of Saudis.

Either way, the overall objective is to maintain a market for the military-industrial complex.

It works that way.

Good Luck!
The US has never sided with Iran against SA. Read about the petrodollar, we may have struck a deal at the end of Obama’s years but we always support SA financially and we’ve never sanctioned them, and we support all their wars.
 
Old 01-03-2018, 10:50 AM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,161,709 times
Reputation: 15093
Ali Khamenei thinks he's God. Hence, he's sanctioned charging the protestors with crimes "against God."
Unbelievable.


Now Iranian state TV is showing marchers protesting in support of Ali Khamenei - thousands of men. Every single one of them a man.


The farce would be laughable if it weren't so horrible for the common person there.




Trump knows jack about keeping US interests protected in the Middle East - if he did he'd be full force supporting the Kurds instead of appeasing the near-dictator Edrogan and the impotents in the Iraqi government.
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