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Old 03-14-2018, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,636 posts, read 2,665,588 times
Reputation: 2564

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I wonder how North Korean apologists even exist in the US. Even before the division, Koreans looks favorably upon the US compared to other powers, possible exception of China, although that changed after the Communists took over. Yes, the US "occupied" southern Korea in the same way the USSR occupied northern Korea, but the Koreans largely welcomed the Americans while voluntary populatuon movements following the announcement of the division saw an overwhelming number of moves being from the future North to the future South and not the reverse. The only "wrong" most Koreans then and now see the US having done to the nation was letting the Soviets and then China take control over most the peninsula rather than temporarily occupying the entire peninsula itself.
South Koreans arenít the ones who dictate if something was morally wrong and the cause of the problems we have today.

Itíd have been better for the world (relatively) had we let the communist win, in exchange Korea as a whole would look like Vietnam today, a fast (albeit undeveloped) economy and a united people.

Instead we have 25 million people suffering and nuclear warfare at the southís doorsteps because American military leaders decided to take charge of the collapsed SK government and level the entire north to the ground and laugh about it creating a mentally unstable Kim regime.
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:17 AM
 
12,310 posts, read 18,429,303 times
Reputation: 19205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
South Koreans aren’t the ones who dictate if something was morally wrong and the cause of the problems we have today.

It’d have been better for the world (relatively) had we let the communist win, in exchange Korea as a whole would look like Vietnam today, a fast (albeit undeveloped) economy and a united people.

Instead we have 25 million people suffering and nuclear warfare at the south’s doorsteps because American military leaders decided to take charge of the collapsed SK government and level the entire north to the ground and laugh about it creating a mentally unstable Kim regime.
I have to create a whole new list of untrues, actually add to my list. I think I am up to 8 now:

6.) You claimed the current state of North Korea was due to the Korean War 1950 to 1953. TRUTH CHECK: Untrue. North Korea successfully rebuilt from that war - With the help of Soviet aid the country of North Korea was at pre-war production levels by 1957.

7.) You claimed above that the "American Military Leaders" created the Kim regime (I assume as a result of the Korean War). TRUTH CHECK: Untrue. The Kim regime is hereditary. Kim Il Sung, the grandfather of the current leader, came to power in North Korea in 1948, several years before the Korean War.

8.) You claim above that Korea's economy is undeveloped. TRUTH CHECK: Untrue. South Korea is a prosperous, technologically advanced, well developed country with a thriving economy. North Korea is a backwards country in disarray. The reason is not because they are communist necessarily, but because they are ruled and have been ruled by a cult of personality dynasty that is more focused on enriching and worshipping the supreme leader, and a closed door culture focused on "juche" - self reliance.


Please continue....

Last edited by Dd714; 03-15-2018 at 04:32 AM..
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,636 posts, read 2,665,588 times
Reputation: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I have to create a whole new list of untrues, actually add to my list. I think I am up to 8 now:

6.) You claimed the current state of North Korea was due to the Korean War 1950 to 1953. TRUTH CHECK: Untrue. North Korea successfully rebuilt from that war - With the help of Soviet aid the country of North Korea was at pre-war production levels by 1957.

7.) You claimed above that the "American Military Leaders" created the Kim regime (I assume as a result of the Korean War). TRUTH CHECK: Untrue. The Kim regime is hereditary. Kim Il Sung, the grandfather of the current leader, came to power in North Korea in 1948, several years before the Korean War.

8.) You claim above that Korea's economy is undeveloped. TRUTH CHECK: Untrue. South Korea is a prosperous, technologically advanced, well developed country with a thriving economy. North Korea is a backwards country in disarray. The reason is not because they are communist necessarily, but because they are ruled and have been ruled by a cult of personality dynasty that is more focused on enriching and worshipping the supreme leader, and a closed door culture focused on "juche" - self reliance.


Please continue....
Sorry, but you misunderstood my points.

6.) yes the state rebuilt but that was after the psychological damage of watching your country flattened and then seeing the perpetrator who laughed at you suffering being declared the good guys. The national state of mind is what built the Kim regime into what it is today.

7.) Again, the Kim regime was there, but they would have turned out differently OR would have been replaced at some point like other communist regimes. There is a reason NK is unique from Cuba, Vietnam and other communist regimes.

8.) No no no no no no, reread my post. I said IF we let the communist take control instead of leveling the entire north then Korea today would be a united state that WHILE underdeveloped (like Vietnam today) would have a fast growing economy and a people not likely to go to nuclear war with each other.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:18 AM
 
12,310 posts, read 18,429,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Sorry, but you misunderstood my points.

6.) yes the state rebuilt but that was after the psychological damage of watching your country flattened and then seeing the perpetrator who laughed at you suffering being declared the good guys. The national state of mind is what built the Kim regime into what it is today.

7.) Again, the Kim regime was there, but they would have turned out differently OR would have been replaced at some point like other communist regimes. There is a reason NK is unique from Cuba, Vietnam and other communist regimes.

8.) No no no no no no, reread my post. I said IF we let the communist take control instead of leveling the entire north then Korea today would be a united state that WHILE underdeveloped (like Vietnam today) would have a fast growing economy and a people not likely to go to nuclear war with each other.
Again I just don't get your worldview. This is like Germany blaming us for World War II and you saying the world would be better under a Nazi regime.

Where do you live that you think this way? Where are you from?
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,688 posts, read 3,655,932 times
Reputation: 16636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Again I just don't get your worldview. This is like Germany blaming us for World War II and you saying the world would be better under a Nazi regime.

Where do you live that you think this way? Where are you from?
I'm guessing Pyongyang.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:31 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,644,150 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
South Koreans arenít the ones who dictate if something was morally wrong and the cause of the problems we have today.

Itíd have been better for the world (relatively) had we let the communist win, in exchange Korea as a whole would look like Vietnam today, a fast (albeit undeveloped) economy and a united people.

Instead we have 25 million people suffering and nuclear warfare at the southís doorsteps because American military leaders decided to take charge of the collapsed SK government and level the entire north to the ground and laugh about it creating a mentally unstable Kim regime.
Thatís pretty naive. N Korea has always been the instigator, the Soviets took over the N Korean government, just like the US did in the south. You seem to be ignoring on purpose the fact that nearly every country in the world has ended trade with N Korea. We bombed the heck out of Vietnam and now have decent relations with them, no different then N Korea, what is he difference in that equation? Itís not the US. Vietnam isnít murdering their citizens in foreign airports or forcing their Olympic cheerleaders to be sex slaves and saying thatís the fault of the US is absolutely ridiculous. If N Korea acts like a reasonable government, then there is no reason we couldnít have normal relations with them like we do with Vietnam. Malaysia ended all trade and government contact with N Korea and they were one of N Koreaís closest allies, N Korea even had a military base in Malaysia, which was closed. While I would love to see a peaceful end to the Korean conflict and unification, itís not going to happen while the Kims are doing those things like using sex slaves and murdering his family in foreign airports.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,636 posts, read 2,665,588 times
Reputation: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Again I just don't get your worldview. This is like Germany blaming us for World War II and you saying the world would be better under a Nazi regime.

Where do you live that you think this way? Where are you from?
just to make a point on the bolded, the Germans had no interest in dominating the west (they only wanted to force a peace treaty so the western front was cleared). They were more concerned with eliminating the Slavic race (which is awful by the way) and destroying the Bolsheviks.

Conversely the Soviets were planning on using the German-British divide to take over Europe (which is why the surprise attack was so devastating by the Nazis, Stalin was planning for an offensive war, not a defensive one).

WW2 was a German vs. Russian war. Nothing more nothing less so their would be no Nazi ruled war as Hitler understood Germany neither had the resources or man-power to maintain such an event.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,636 posts, read 2,665,588 times
Reputation: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Thatís pretty naive. N Korea has always been the instigator, the Soviets took over the N Korean government, just like the US did in the south. You seem to be ignoring on purpose the fact that nearly every country in the world has ended trade with N Korea. We bombed the heck out of Vietnam and now have decent relations with them, no different then N Korea, what is he difference in that equation? Itís not the US. Vietnam isnít murdering their citizens in foreign airports or forcing their Olympic cheerleaders to be sex slaves and saying thatís the fault of the US is absolutely ridiculous. If N Korea acts like a reasonable government, then there is no reason we couldnít have normal relations with them like we do with Vietnam. Malaysia ended all trade and government contact with N Korea and they were one of N Koreaís closest allies, N Korea even had a military base in Malaysia, which was closed. While I would love to see a peaceful end to the Korean conflict and unification, itís not going to happen while the Kims are doing those things like using sex slaves and murdering his family in foreign airports.
Well it's obviously too late now, but I think western leaders should understand that they did this to the Korean peninsula rather than pretending Kim is a random evil that came from no where.

It is also an inarguable fact that had we not bombed the North to the ground and had let the peninsula unite the situation would be very different today (as you can see from all other united communist governments today).

As for Vietnam the big difference is that they won their war and got to see America get world blame for the war as a war of aggression. The didn't feel betrayed by the world community and had maintained a united people.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:12 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,644,150 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Well it's obviously too late now, but I think western leaders should understand that they did this to the Korean peninsula rather than pretending Kim is a random evil that came from no where.

It is also an inarguable fact that had we not bombed the North to the ground and had let the peninsula unite the situation would be very different today (as you can see from all other united communist governments today).

As for Vietnam the big difference is that they won their war and got to see America get world blame for the war as a war of aggression. The didn't feel betrayed by the world community and had maintained a united people.
Or perhaps the communists should have rolled over and let the South take the north? Come on, what an absurd perspective.

Blaming the Korean conflict on anyone but N Korea is absurd. Your entire premise is based on a ďwhat ifĒ, what if we just let N Korea take the south and hopefully they would have turned out to be like Vietnam. Thereís no point debating with someone whose perspective is based on a what if the Kims were actually good people. Anyone who allows them self to become a diety, isnít a good person. He forced his people to worship him before he started the invasion in 1948-1949. They started murdering those who questioned the cult of Kim in 1953.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:43 AM
 
12,310 posts, read 18,429,303 times
Reputation: 19205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
just to make a point on the bolded...
Yes but you never answered the question - what country are you posting from or what nationality are you? Your writing indicates that English may be a second language.

I hate to be the tin-foil hat conspiracy theory guy but are you an employee of one of those Russian groups that Putin hires to go into public forums and write a bunch of nonsense just to mess with our heads?
It's a silly thought, but I can not come up with any other explanation of your responses here.
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