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Old 02-12-2018, 03:52 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I disagree. These symbolic acts of partnership are huge in Asian countries.

For this first time since 1957 Koreans are marching to a united flag in the Olympics, the north’s band is inviting K-pop singers to perform with them.

The US and China may both want them divided but Koreans know better.

The Kim family defended the north from US imperialism while also avoiding becoming a puppet of the Soviets, due to this a deal can be struck that leaves the Kims as a royal family (with no real power) and then the future is set.

Also that beautiful woman was not just a pretty face, she was Un’s sister. Modest, elegant, and with the smile of an angel; she knows what she’s doing and speaks with authority.
I am quite skeptical that a man capable of ordering a former member of his inner circle to be killed by mortar or one that ordered the execution of someone allegedly for falling asleep in a meeting would be willing to sign on to any deal that left him with no real power. Unless and until the entire lineage of Dear Leader is dead or exiled there can be no reunification. Leaders who are treated like living gods don't mesh well with democratic or even quasi-democratic cultures.
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:18 AM
 
12,292 posts, read 18,409,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
In the 60s when the Soviet Union was ruling half the world and had a country 100 Times the size of puny West Germany no one could consider Germany, even a united German, surpassing them.

Today itís the same case, the Chinese dominate the (poorer) North Korea as the Soviets did with East Germany while the south (like the west) is richer but not comparable to the larger nation, China (or the USSR)

But korea like germany is a unified homogeneous culture and they can work together to build something new while China (like the Soviet Union) is a massive authoritarian state with many regions pushing for independence.

China only has land to lose (like Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Inner Mongolia, etc.) like the Soviets did (like Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, kazakhstan, etc.) while South Korea (like West Germany) only has land to gain and a population united under one cause.

Just wait, itíll happen.
This is like a conversation in an alternative universe or something.

Germany was already a world leader in Europe and a challenge to Russia and had been ever since it's roots and Prussia and the German states for centuries. The power in Germany was already there, unification with the East or not. This is a non-starter topic.

The Chinese do not dominate North Korea at all, in fact relations are not always good. But the fact is China is there main trading partner and has some economic leverage. But N. Korea does there own thing. They do consider it part of their hegemony, which is not the same as saying they dominate it. A unified Korea is a good thing but it will come with some growing pains - first the collapse of the Kim regime will likely bring up a humanitarian crises even worse than it is now up there with people starving. Otherwise, South Korea is already a successful, advanced, modern country as shown by the Olympics.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,614 posts, read 2,654,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I am quite skeptical that a man capable of ordering a former member of his inner circle to be killed by mortar or one that ordered the execution of someone allegedly for falling asleep in a meeting would be willing to sign on to any deal that left him with no real power. Unless and until the entire lineage of Dear Leader is dead or exiled there can be no reunification. Leaders who are treated like living gods don't mesh well with democratic or even quasi-democratic cultures.
Heís paranoid because he knows the Americans want him dead or sent to a CIA blacksite. He was born into this position and there is no where for him to run or hide.

Now if he was guaranteed life in Korea AND a continuation of his comfortable lifestyle heíd jump at the opportunity. He knows what the US is capable of and is deathly afraid of us, thatís why he keeps his nuclear weapons.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:47 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,640,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
In the 60s when the Soviet Union was ruling half the world and had a country 100 Times the size of puny West Germany no one could consider Germany, even a united German, surpassing them.

Today itís the same case, the Chinese dominate the (poorer) North Korea as the Soviets did with East Germany while the south (like the west) is richer but not comparable to the larger nation, China (or the USSR)

But korea like germany is a unified homogeneous culture and they can work together to build something new while China (like the Soviet Union) is a massive authoritarian state with many regions pushing for independence.

China only has land to lose (like Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Inner Mongolia, etc.) like the Soviets did (like Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, kazakhstan, etc.) while South Korea (like West Germany) only has land to gain and a population united under one cause.

Just wait, itíll happen.
This has no basis in reality. North Korea is a completely independent nation and they were never subjugated to China. Eastern Germany was forced into subjugation by the Soviet Union. Germany was already a powerful nation, well before Eastern Germany was created.

China is a very stable country, unlike the Soviet Union. Even if the Communist Party falls somehow in China, the country isnít going to break apart. Xinjiang is the only province with any real breakaway movements, and itís a tiny fraction of the Chinese economy. Even then, Xinjiang isnít going to break away.

A unified Korea would be be an economic powerhouse, but it wonít rival China, I doubt it will even rival Japan or Germany. More likely in a similar position as the UK or India as far as gdp goes.

North Koreans government may eventually collapse with the end of the Kim family, that will be the best route for a unified Korea.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
This has no basis in reality. North Korea is a completely independent nation and they were never subjugated to China. Eastern Germany was forced into subjugation by the Soviet Union. Germany was already a powerful nation, well before Eastern Germany was created.

China is a very stable country, unlike the Soviet Union. Even if the Communist Party falls somehow in China, the country isnít going to break apart. Xinjiang is the only province with any real breakaway movements, and itís a tiny fraction of the Chinese economy. Even then, Xinjiang isnít going to break away.

A unified Korea would be be an economic powerhouse, but it wonít rival China, I doubt it will even rival Japan or Germany. More likely in a similar position as the UK or India as far as gdp goes.

North Koreans government may eventually collapse with the end of the Kim family, that will be the best route for a unified Korea.
While I disagree, there is one major point Iíd like to make;

While Xinjiang does has a small economy it also contains the majority of Chinaís fresh water which is then transported to other parts of the country,
Without it China is doomed.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:19 PM
 
15,734 posts, read 9,251,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
In the 60s when the Soviet Union was ruling half the world and had a country 100 Times the size of puny West Germany no one could consider Germany, even a united German, surpassing them.

Today it’s the same case, the Chinese dominate the (poorer) North Korea as the Soviets did with East Germany while the south (like the west) is richer but not comparable to the larger nation, China (or the USSR)

But korea like germany is a unified homogeneous culture and they can work together to build something new while China (like the Soviet Union) is a massive authoritarian state with many regions pushing for independence.

China only has land to lose (like Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Inner Mongolia, etc.) like the Soviets did (like Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, kazakhstan, etc.) while South Korea (like West Germany) only has land to gain and a population united under one cause.

Just wait, it’ll happen.
A population that is uneducated, malnourished, and has been taught to hate them. South Koreans don't want that.

Unless Kim and his advisers are eliminated, it will not happen. They've killed, imprisoned and tortured millions. If, in a fantasy world, the Koreas unite, what do you think will happen to those people in charge? Will their war crimes be swept under the rug? Will everyone go along as if nothing horrific has happened for the past 50 years? The North does NOT want the rest of the world to be in a position to bring them to justice. They will fight to the death to keep that from happening. They may be evil, but they are not stupid. As is evidenced by their manipulation of the west's media, and the fact that stupid people truly believe they want unity.

It's never going to happen. Ever.

Last edited by ringwise; 02-12-2018 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:22 PM
 
15,734 posts, read 9,251,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
So were the Soviets, until they werenít.

These things take time but remember, power held through force is a temporary state.

Anyways Koreans love each other and want to stand side by side on their own accord.
No they don't. The older generations that have some memory of a united Korea are dying off. The new generations have nothing in common with North Korea.

They're standing side by side because the athletes from the South don't want to embarrass their country in front of the world, and the athletes from the North are afraid Kim will kill their families if they make a fuss.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:34 PM
 
15,734 posts, read 9,251,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Expat View Post
I would pass on the style of love Kim Jong Unh passes out.


Don't get me wrong, I would love it if these 2 nations could resolve their differences but I suspect the more likely choice is that N. Korea is just making a show for PR purposes to steal the show from S. Korea.
Exactly. And to use the narrative to brainwash their people further.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:38 PM
 
15,734 posts, read 9,251,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I am quite skeptical that a man capable of ordering a former member of his inner circle to be killed by mortar or one that ordered the execution of someone allegedly for falling asleep in a meeting would be willing to sign on to any deal that left him with no real power. Unless and until the entire lineage of Dear Leader is dead or exiled there can be no reunification. Leaders who are treated like living gods don't mesh well with democratic or even quasi-democratic cultures.
Not to mention how insane it would be for the rest of the world to allow a murdering psychopath to remain as the royal family, in a country that hasn't had one for over 100 years. A murderer who has no real claim to the "royal" title, in any case.
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,614 posts, read 2,654,642 times
Reputation: 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
A population that is uneducated, malnourished, and has been taught to hate them. South Koreans don't want that.

Unless Kim and his advisers are eliminated, it will not happen. They've killed, imprisoned and tortured millions. If, in a fantasy world, the Koreas unite, what do you think will happen to those people in charge? Will their war crimes be swept under the rug? Will everyone go along as if nothing horrific has happened for the past 50 years? The North does NOT want the rest of the world to be in a position to bring them to justice. They will fight to the death to keep that from happening. They may be evil, but they are not stupid. As is evidenced by their manipulation of the west's media, and the fact that stupid people truly believe they want unity.

It's never going to happen. Ever.
Kissinger war crimes were swept under the rug and then he went on to reestablish ties with China and win a Noble Peace Prize;

If you let go of your need to punish the guilty good things will come.
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