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Old 03-02-2018, 01:38 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,253,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Exactly.

This is the worst thing happened to China since 1989. The future of China is doomed.
I thought it was always doomed and should have collapsed 100 time?
In 1989 the government made the hard but right choice. Today, 95% of the Chinese would agree.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,854 posts, read 3,416,822 times
Reputation: 1801
Chiang Kai Shek was President of the Republic of China from 1948 to his death from natural causes in 1975. He was elected a total of five times for consecutive 6 year terms (he died midway through the fifth). One has got to wonder how he and only HE ended up winning the election every time.

Believe whatever you want and this has nothing to do with my personal opinion but my point of fact is, dynastic rule or lifelong rule is not at all uncommon among Chinese leaders. It's part of the Confucian moral that if a ruler knows what he is doing and the people are happy, he can rule as long as he can with the support of the people. If the ruler does not know what he is doing, the country is weak, or the people unhappy, then the people will oppose him. Of course many rulers have been known to use coercion and intimidation to force voters to vote for them, that is common in authoritarian nations.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 803,616 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Chiang Kai Shek was President of the Republic of China from 1948 to his death from natural causes in 1975. He was elected a total of five times for consecutive 6 year terms (he died midway through the fifth). One has got to wonder how he and only HE ended up winning the election every time.

Believe whatever you want and this has nothing to do with my personal opinion but my point of fact is, dynastic rule or lifelong rule is not at all uncommon among Chinese leaders. It's part of the Confucian moral that if a ruler knows what he is doing and the people are happy, he can rule as long as he can with the support of the people. If the ruler does not know what he is doing, the country is weak, or the people unhappy, then the people will oppose him. Of course many rulers have been known to use coercion and intimidation to force voters to vote for them, that is common in authoritarian nations.
The difference is, Chiang Kai Shek was elected by the people because he was competent and popular.

Very few Chinese, if any, are happy with Xi administration. China will remain a ****hole country forever if it's going backward in 21st century.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,561 posts, read 2,641,528 times
Reputation: 2541
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
The difference is, Chiang Kai Shek was elected by the people because he was competent and popular.

Very few Chinese, if any, are happy with Xi administration. China will remain a ****hole country forever if it's going backward in 21st century.
that is a lie and you know it.
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
3,682 posts, read 5,845,091 times
Reputation: 5851
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
........
Very few Chinese, if any, are happy with Xi administration. China will remain a ****hole country forever if it's going backward in 21st century.
Ridiculous. It's just the opposite. Look at this PEW research survey. (PEW is an American organization, not Chinese) Notice how approval, already high, went up after Xi come into power: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:17 AM
 
991 posts, read 715,857 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Chiang Kai Shek was President of the Republic of China from 1948 to his death from natural causes in 1975. He was elected a total of five times for consecutive 6 year terms (he died midway through the fifth). One has got to wonder how he and only HE ended up winning the election every time.

Believe whatever you want and this has nothing to do with my personal opinion but my point of fact is, dynastic rule or lifelong rule is not at all uncommon among Chinese leaders. It's part of the Confucian moral that if a ruler knows what he is doing and the people are happy, he can rule as long as he can with the support of the people. If the ruler does not know what he is doing, the country is weak, or the people unhappy, then the people will oppose him. Of course many rulers have been known to use coercion and intimidation to force voters to vote for them, that is common in authoritarian nations.
Chiang Kai Shek stayed in power via the typical devices of despots. Ever heard of the "White Terror"? It is still protested today. His son: Chiang Ching-kuo quickly democratized the ROC, following the principles of Sun Yat-Sen.

It's apples and oranges, anyway.

Chiang Kai Shek had a legitimate reason to be a dictator. He started with a war-ravaged 3rd-world China, pillaged by western colonialists, invaded by the Japanese, and then split by civil war. The ROC managed to relocate to Taiwan, radically improve the island's infrastructure, and then rapidly and effectively transition from dictatorship to true popular democracy. And things in the ROC/Taiwan have been going gangbusters since then. In the 90's and early 2000's, Taiwan was the star of the "Asian Tigers."

Xi Jinping started with something great: a democratizing and liberalizing nearly-1st-world China, unified and un-threatened by regional adversaries, and reversed course: enslaving 1 billion Chinese into his personal dictatorship. China was on track to follow Taiwan into freeing its people. One megalomaniac has changed all that, and it is tragic.

The ROC completely disproves your premise. Despotic rule by concentrating power in the hands of a few is unnatural and unstable for all humans. Taiwan today is an example of what China could have become if the Communist Party had led to a benevolent transition to democracy, as everyone hoped in the early 2000's.

Instead, China's march toward freedom been co-opted and corrupted by a power-hungry despot named Xi Jinping. What a tragedy for the 1 billion Chinese mainlanders! For you to promote some sort of nostalgic vision of ancient China to promote the dictatorship of Xi Jinping makes you look like a shill for his regime. The Chinese are just as capable of governing themselves, and Xi Jinping is no Chiang Kai Shek or Lee Teng-hui. He is a man of Mao, Stalin, or Ill's ilk.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 803,616 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post
Ridiculous. It's just the opposite. Look at this PEW research survey. (PEW is an American organization, not Chinese) Notice how approval, already high, went up after Xi come into power: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8
The research survey is truly ridiculous, I don't know their methodology.

I lived in Shanghai. At least nobody in my social circle likes him at all. I believe this is true among educated middle class Chinese.

There's a possibility that you can find fans of Mao in rural China who support Xi.

But seriously, the approval rating amounts to nothing in a country with zero democracy. The freedom of speech is further weakened in Xi administration. You can't really post anything critical of Xi on Chinese social media because your comments will be removed very soon. Anyway, I have to admit a huge portion of Chinese don't care about political rights that much. But everyone knows the economy is going downhill. Air pollution is also getting worse during Xi administration, even though I don't think it's necessarily his fault.

In China, Nobody is satisfied with the current state.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,854 posts, read 3,416,822 times
Reputation: 1801
Quote:
Originally Posted by wac_432 View Post
Chiang Kai Shek stayed in power via the typical devices of despots. Ever heard of the "White Terror"? It is still protested today. His son: Chiang Ching-kuo quickly democratized the ROC, following the principles of Sun Yat-Sen.

It's apples and oranges, anyway.

Chiang Kai Shek had a legitimate reason to be a dictator. He started with a war-ravaged 3rd-world China, pillaged by western colonialists, invaded by the Japanese, and then split by civil war. The ROC managed to relocate to Taiwan, radically improve the island's infrastructure, and then rapidly and effectively transition from dictatorship to true popular democracy. And things in the ROC/Taiwan have been going gangbusters since then. In the 90's and early 2000's, Taiwan was the star of the "Asian Tigers."

Xi Jinping started with something great: a democratizing and liberalizing nearly-1st-world China, unified and un-threatened by regional adversaries, and reversed course: enslaving 1 billion Chinese into his personal dictatorship. China was on track to follow Taiwan into freeing its people. One megalomaniac has changed all that, and it is tragic.

The ROC completely disproves your premise. Despotic rule by concentrating power in the hands of a few is unnatural and unstable for all humans. Taiwan today is an example of what China could have become if the Communist Party had led to a benevolent transition to democracy, as everyone hoped in the early 2000's.

Instead, China's march toward freedom been co-opted and corrupted by a power-hungry despot named Xi Jinping. What a tragedy for the 1 billion Chinese mainlanders! For you to promote some sort of nostalgic vision of ancient China to promote the dictatorship of Xi Jinping makes you look like a shill for his regime. The Chinese are just as capable of governing themselves, and Xi Jinping is no Chiang Kai Shek or Lee Teng-hui. He is a man of Mao, Stalin, or Ill's ilk.
Seriously!? Did you even bother to read my comment carefully and try to understand what it says? I said it myself: "Believe whatever you want and this has nothing to do with my personal opinion...". Where in my comment did I bring up the argument over whether Chiang Kai Shek was a legitimate ruler or not? Where in my comment did I give any opinion to any side? Where in my comment did I promote the return of a "nostalgic vision of ancient China"? You've given a lot more opinion and false assumptions in your lengthy response than I did in my short seven sentence post. You don't even know what side of the political argument I am on and yet you jump to the conclusion that I actually support Xi Jinping, Chinese Communism, or praise dictatorship as a form of government. My post was merely an informative piece for Westerners and others who probably are not familiar with Chinese history or Chinese political culture. I on the other hand have been studying this subject matter for over twenty years and many of my relatives have actually lived through some of China's greatest political and social crises (Land Reform, the Great Leap Forward, etc) to be able to tell concise oral history. I can engage in a lengthy discussion about the modern history of China and name many names of important social and political figures but as this thread is not about Chiang Kai Shek or anyone else, I'm not going to go there . Don't come accusing me of false assumptions because I didn't say anything of that sort.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,116,323 times
Reputation: 4555
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
In China, Nobody is satisfied with the current state.
Well, botticelli and bettafish are.

Oh wait. I forgot. They are not in China.


And CKS was a murderous ****. It’s unfortunate that he didn’t die more brutally and that there are still memorials of his ****y, nauseating ass in Taiwan lmao. If anything that just proves how stupid Taiwanese people are.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,561 posts, read 2,641,528 times
Reputation: 2541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Well, botticelli and bettafish are.

Oh wait. I forgot. They are not in China.


And CKS was a murderous ****. Itís unfortunate that he didnít die more brutally and that there are still memorials of his ****y, nauseating ass in Taiwan lmao. If anything that just proves how stupid Taiwanese people are.
So you canít support your home country from abroad?

Iím sure there a lot of nationalities that do that.
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