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Old 04-25-2018, 09:04 PM
 
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We all know that the original migrants to US/Canada/Aus in the 19th century were from far southern China in the port city of Guangzhou and built their Chinese culture in the West like the Cantonese Chinatowns in SF and such.
However, what do you guys think would have happened if Northern Chinese (from port cities in Shandong especially) immigrated instead?

Obviously, certain stereotypes would have changed as Northerners are certainly not small and effeminate, nor do they shy from alcohol and lack aggressiveness. Language would also be different. Do you guys think that culturally, Northerners would fit in better in the West too?
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Not really. They'd still be looked upon as alien and "inscrutable" and "non assimilatable". Different dialects wouldn't make a difference to the white man who couldn't understand them anyway.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Not really. They'd still be looked upon as alien and "inscrutable" and "non assimilatable". Different dialects wouldn't make a difference to the white man who couldn't understand them anyway.
Hmm, true.
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
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Most recent Chinese immigrants don't speak Cantonese, like tech workers in silicon valley, professors in U.S universities.

I don't think most of the descendants of 19th century Cantonese immigrants have retained the language.

Being a little bit taller doesn't change your ethnicity.

It's obvious that there's no difference made.
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:58 PM
 
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Northern Chinese cuisine is quite different from Southern. Maybe the ubiquitous western style Chinese food at cheap restaurants would be different if the early Chinese Americans were northern and not Cantonese. Probably other small differences as well, but as far as how they were treated by white societies and their place in society, would not change the racism of earlier times.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
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What do you mean by "lacking aggressiveness". I wouldn't stereotype Northern Chinese as drunken boors who get into fights all the time nor would I categorize Southern Chinese as docile weaklings who only listen and get pushed around. Had the Northern Chinese come to build the railroads instead of the Cantonese, they too would have faced the same bigotry and discrimination. Mind you, I haven't researched the subject matter enough but I wouldn't be surprised if there were Northern Chinese that also came to the U.S. over a century ago, perhaps only in smaller numbers.

And Southern Chinese are "small and effeminate?" Where in the name of the highest power did you get that thought?
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
What do you mean by "lacking aggressiveness". I wouldn't stereotype Northern Chinese as drunken boors who get into fights all the time nor would I categorize Southern Chinese as docile weaklings who only listen and get pushed around. Had the Northern Chinese come to build the railroads instead of the Cantonese, they too would have faced the same bigotry and discrimination. Mind you, I haven't researched the subject matter enough but I wouldn't be surprised if there were Northern Chinese that also came to the U.S. over a century ago, perhaps only in smaller numbers.

And Southern Chinese are "small and effeminate?" Where in the name of the highest power did you get that thought?
I mean, Northerners might have faced similar racial bigotry but stereotypes might have been different.

Yes, Chinese are stereotyped in the US/AUS to be small and effeminate by White people. And we know that it was mostly the Southerners who migrated first. It's common knowledge in China that Northerners are huskier/taller (diet and genetic differences), are much more aggressive and brutally honest. Most wars in history took place in Northern China before 1800.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
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Originally Posted by jabeha View Post
I mean, Northerners might have faced similar racial bigotry but stereotypes might have been different.

Yes, Chinese are stereotyped in the US/AUS to be small and effeminate by White people. And we know that it was mostly the Southerners who migrated first. It's common knowledge in China that Northerners are huskier/taller (diet and genetic differences), are much more aggressive and brutally honest. Most wars in history took place in Northern China before 1800.
I'd like you to share the source of your information because I am really curious to know where you got that and who is saying it. To me, saying Southern Chinese are stereotyped in the US/AUS to be effeminate by White people is nothing but crock. I'm an American born Cantonese Chinese myself and sure enough fellow Western Americans have commented on my small size and weak strength in the past (I'm talking childhood days so the argument is even silly to make) but never said I ever acted like a girl. Sheesh does whomever is your source think Southern Chinese men are all ladyboys or something? How on earth did they build the railroads and plow the fields if they were so effeminate? As for your last comment about most wars taking place in Northern China before 1800, well that is true but you have to take into consideration that China's capital is in the North and invaders are almost always going to try to attack the national capital first in any war. And no not all Northern Chinese are burly and aggressive, that is pure crock too.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
I'd like you to share the source of your information because I am really curious to know where you got that and who is saying it. To me, saying Southern Chinese are stereotyped in the US/AUS to be effeminate by White people is nothing but crock. I'm an American born Cantonese Chinese myself and sure enough fellow Western Americans have commented on my small size and weak strength in the past (I'm talking childhood days so the argument is even silly to make) but never said I ever acted like a girl. Sheesh does whomever is your source think Southern Chinese men are all ladyboys or something? How on earth did they build the railroads and plow the fields if they were so effeminate? As for your last comment about most wars taking place in Northern China before 1800, well that is true but you have to take into consideration that China's capital is in the North and invaders are almost always going to try to attack the national capital first in any war. And no not all Northern Chinese are burly and aggressive, that is pure crock too.
You have to be virtually blind to not see the racist stereotypes and carciatures inflicted by western Media on Asian men, who are depicted to be less attractive and physically feeble. Obviously, that is not the case but the media has you believe that Asian (especially Chinese) men are more feminine, weak, timid, shy and less sexually attractive.

Obviously, not all Northern Chinese are burly and aggressive (especially now) but back then, the differences were quite distinct. Of course, the railway builders were Southern Chinese but they were still smaller (but still relatively strong) than Northern Chinese. Southern Chinese also tend to be more 'polite' as generally, rice growing cultures emphasize group harmony. Much like the Japanese. Thus, back then many Southerners when provoked (by racist white people) would not fight back for the sake of peace while such a provocation is basically custom for Northerners to beat the crap out of the person.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:58 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,636,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabeha View Post
We all know that the original migrants to US/Canada/Aus in the 19th century were from far southern China in the port city of Guangzhou and built their Chinese culture in the West like the Cantonese Chinatowns in SF and such.
However, what do you guys think would have happened if Northern Chinese (from port cities in Shandong especially) immigrated instead?

Obviously, certain stereotypes would have changed as Northerners are certainly not small and effeminate, nor do they shy from alcohol and lack aggressiveness. Language would also be different. Do you guys think that culturally, Northerners would fit in better in the West too?
Of course there would be differences today, but northern Chinese are not much taller then southern Chinese, especially 30+ years ago. All Chinese on average were 3+ inches shorter 30+ years ago then they were today and the difference between northern and southern Chinese has been determined to be roughly 2" on average, not much really, while most white people in those countries haven't grown that much relatively. So, no I don't think there would be a difference there.

Chinese cuisine changed drastically in foreign countries because many Chinese vegetables and spices were not available, it doesn't matter if they were from the north or the south, they'd still have to make major changes to their cuisine.

Policies were really the whites vs everyone else during those time periods, so no, the differences we know today wouldn't have mattered 50+ years ago.

I will say, I think Cantonese influence today would be drastically less if they hadn't led the charge on emigration. Many of those Canto pop stars, actors, businessmen, etc were educated in the west or gained their wealth in the west and then migrated back to China or Hong Kong. Jackie Chan for instance was from northern China, if I remember right, his native language is not Cantonese, yet many of his popular music and movies are in Cantonese, and he still releases many Canto songs.

I'm not going to debate it too hard, just my opinion, but thats where the biggest changes would be in my opinion. I don't think Chinese influence on the west has been very much to be perfectly honest. Most westerners know little about Chinese culture. When you ask Americans what they know of China, they'll probably say something like Chinese food, you know like Generals Tso's Chicken...
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