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Old 05-22-2018, 08:23 PM
 
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Please don't take this the wrong way thinking I'm having a go at other places in Asia...but why is Japan so utterly very clean considering its population and how densely packed places like Tokyo is, I've been impressed twice (been there 2012 and just a few months back)?

It's very wealthy so I assume there is a lot of urban renewal, the people have a very good mindset to constantly clean their front patches of their house and the roads are well made and drained. I walked through a lot of their backstreets and it was seriously clean for backstreets. There are some areas which are not so like clinically clean but still when you consider how many people there are it's still quite clean. Just, how do they do it? I've often considered humidity as one factor some countries around the equator can't be clean but Japan also gets quite humid in summer?

What I really can't work out is why there is so little grime and dirt on buildings/walls of buildings considering a lot of other "developed" places in Asia have a lot....even Seoul which I'd consider Tokyo's nearest but distantly second competitor. Hong Kong is just purely and utterly dirty in most places. Taipei probably lacks proper urban planning and getting people to remove illegal rooftop structures, couple this with constant rain and humidity in summer and somewhat a lack of hygiene levels and you get this greyish urban structure. I find Singapore relatively clean but walking its backstreets you still get this "unhygienic" vibe especially in parts like Little India, it also suffers from year round relentless heat/humidity which makes it worse. Their open rainwater drainage system keeps streets from moisture/from being wet but it is still I find the way its open and visible somewhat not nice to look at.

I'm also not sure of how to express it but Japan just feels cleaner than some Western countries as well. The West seems to rely on the fact that it's not as populated and very low density housing as well as being rather dry/not as hot in most countries in Europe/Canada/USA/Australia.

Last edited by willister; 05-22-2018 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:46 PM
 
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Some parts of Shibuya in Tokyo is relatively "dirty", with visible trash on the streets.

Japanese people have good habits. When I took Shinkansen trains I noticed there is no trash can but everyone took their trash away.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:19 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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I fet the impression that it comes down mainly to two things:

1. Japan is dominated by a single culture that places a very high importance on both order (hence cleanliness) and conformity (hence social reprobation against littering); Countries like the US are multicultural with varying levels of importance being put on cleanliness both by region and by different subgroups within regions, and thus there is no social consensus on how much littering is tolerated. While some Americans become absolutely livid at the sight of littering, many think it is no big deal.

2. Japanese cities employ a large workforce to keep city streets clean; not just garbage pickup and street cleaning vehicles, but people who manually sweep and pick up trash.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Some parts of Shibuya in Tokyo is relatively "dirty", with visible trash on the streets.

Japanese people have good habits. When I took Shinkansen trains I noticed there is no trash can but everyone took their trash away.
Dont get me wrong, as they are human as well there are parts that are dirty, but this is the exception than the normal. In 2012 I was using a laundromat in downtown Osaka....boy it was dirty bad wouldnt be surprised if there was a few rats running around.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:12 AM
 
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It depends on where you live in the West. Japan doesn't have the underclass urban poor in the same way the West has, and generally richer areas tend to be cleaner. Everyone is middle class in Japan.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jowonder201812345 View Post
It depends on where you live in the West. Japan doesn't have the underclass urban poor in the same way the West has, and generally richer areas tend to be cleaner. Everyone is middle class in Japan.

Almost 1/3 of Japan is age 65+. Women age 65+ have a 22% poverty rate. The poverty rate for men age 20-24 is really high. There's an emerging enormous generational wealth gap. Not everyone is middle class. With a homogeneous population and virtually no immigration, you don't have the permanent underclass problem found in the large country heterogeneous parts of the west.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Almost 1/3 of Japan is age 65+. Women age 65+ have a 22% poverty rate. The poverty rate for men age 20-24 is really high. There's an emerging enormous generational wealth gap. Not everyone is middle class. With a homogeneous population and virtually no immigration, you don't have the permanent underclass problem found in the large country heterogeneous parts of the west.
65+ people who tend to be confined to their homes in mostly rural areas and villages. They also tend to be more mannered than younger people. Japanese people are generally various shades middle class, or at least can afford a middle class lifestyle (once you get over the fact that most Japanese don't care about a bed and things like that). The quality-of-life in Japan is unrivaled.

The West has a huge socioeconomic division among European racial peoples that sees itself having a large lower class population living in poverty, with immigration being mainly confined to Muslims and Hispanics that serve the lower class minority groups. Furthermore, the issue with Muslim lower class in Europe is fueled by their high birth rate and lack of respect for education values shared among other ethnic groups, which leads to other socioeconomic problems such as poverty and crime.

It also reminds me of the economic indicators about poverty and wealth inequality in South Asia. Sri Lanka has the highest wealth inequality in South Asia and is usually prescribed a high poverty rate, but people overlook that the island has a very good healthcare system and strong socialist institutions meaning that quality-of-life for a poor person is better than in India, not to mention that in-kind welfare does not get counted well in economic statistics.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:29 AM
 
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Also, Zen (note that it's descended from Indian and Chinese cultural norms) places huge emphasis on space and plainness - almost like the minimalist architecture found in the West. It requires vast expanses on clean and plain places.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:43 AM
 
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Also, HK's horrid urban planning is probably due to British influence in a hark back to London's messy city planning. Taiwan is the only really interesting case because it is generally more horrid that HK because it's nonfunctional in many cases.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jowonder201812345 View Post
65+ people who tend to be confined to their homes in mostly rural areas and villages.

Not really. Most Japanese live in urban areas. 78%. That includes people just exiting the workforce. Age 65 is a Boomer who may have had grandparents in a rural place but grew up urban.


My point is that "all of Japan is middle class" isn't quite true. There's an increasing elderly poverty issue. Particularly with women. That includes an elderly crime wave of mostly property crime. It's not the violent crime issue of many countries but poverty induces a lot of property crime.
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