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Old 07-26-2018, 04:34 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,349,751 times
Reputation: 11309

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
The fake vaccines would like a word with you.
The healthcare system in China is legitimately terrible. IIRC, it's #143 globally, and that seems about right.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:20 AM
 
652 posts, read 581,409 times
Reputation: 699
I completely disagree. The healthcare system is not terrible. On a global scale its above average. Does it have the R&D and experience in advanced medicines or treating certain cancers like say the U.S? Probably not, but there are many things that China's physicians do an excellent job of, mainly because they see so many patience and gain much more experience. One area would be in IV fertility. Less rare cancers, eye treatments and many other low to mid-range treatments China does a good job. Also, take a look at the facilities in some large cities and its new buildings that are super clean and have excellent equipment. The cost is usually at least 1/4 if not less then any treatment in the U.S. Compare how much x-rays or an ultra-sound cost in the U.S. vs China. The major problem in China is there are too many people, esp old people who rush to the city hospital even for a simple cold. They need to reform and make the local clinics and smaller private hospitals more reputable.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:21 AM
 
12,683 posts, read 14,063,903 times
Reputation: 34742
The Madman of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is eating up the wallpaper about China, U.S. industries are supposedly howling in unison against it, and a good share of the U.S. population poops its pants in rage at just a mention of China.

I know there are lots of "What if...." threads, but this one seems to have left the launching pad at a rather inauspicious time.

"Better"?....as in less competitive, less aggressive, less controlling, less like the U.S., and just happy to take Japan's old time jobs of exporting paper fans and incense burners?
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:25 AM
 
652 posts, read 581,409 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Where's the evidence of this? India and Nigeria aren't anymore worldly after colonization (unless you count emigration as worldly) and Papua New Guinea is an absolute hellhole with a horrific education system and widespread belief in sorcery.
Hong Kong. Its an excellent example of how basically the same group of people, Chinese in genealogy, went on two very different paths. Hong Kong was ruled by the Brits, and had a democracy for decades (albeit not always treated as equals) and had access to better education, open information that wasn't controlled by the gov't, and so on. If you today, can't see the difference in mentality between Mainland Chinese )even from the biggest cities) compare to Hong Kong locals, then you just don't understand and need to experience it for yourself.


Taiwan, esp Taipei is another great example of Chinese going on two different paths. Taiwan more so with outside influence with many Taiwan leaders being educated in the U.S. and then in the 50's setting up a democratic system.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 804,562 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeinChina View Post
Hong Kong. Its an excellent example of how basically the same group of people, Chinese in genealogy, went on two very different paths. Hong Kong was ruled by the Brits, and had a democracy for decades (albeit not always treated as equals) and had access to better education, open information that wasn't controlled by the gov't, and so on. If you today, can't see the difference in mentality between Mainland Chinese )even from the biggest cities) compare to Hong Kong locals, then you just don't understand and need to experience it for yourself.


Taiwan, esp Taipei is another great example of Chinese going on two different paths. Taiwan more so with outside influence with many Taiwan leaders being educated in the U.S. and then in the 50's setting up a democratic system.
Hong Kong didn't have much democracy under British rule, but freedom was much greater than in mainland China. They also imported legal and educational system from Britain.

Taiwan is basically a U.S ally and it had the fortune of being colonized by Japan and the Dutch.

Singapore is interesting. Singapore is seen as a role model by the Chinese government because it's the only developed country that doesn't have much democracy and political freedom.

Democracy is a core value in the civilized world, which is independent of economic growth. Just as slavery may not have a direct relationship with economic growth, but it's rejected simply because people believe it's wrong. What if slavery is actually good for the economy? That's not the excuse to restore it.

Interesting enough, the communists claim that China also has democracy and freedom. They know what is right but they care about their absolute power than anything else.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:52 AM
 
12,263 posts, read 18,393,933 times
Reputation: 19082
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
This is a very controversial topic in China.

A lot of intellectuals in China believe that China would be much better if it had been colonized by some western country or Japan for an extended period of time. That would be the best and fastest way for China to catch up with the rest of the world. Actually, communism was imported to China from Germany, which is totally foreign to traditional Chinese culture too. So colonization wouldn't be worse than that.

Others argue that most former colonies are still stuck in third world status, for instance, India is even poorer than China, Mexico isn't much better than China, Zimbabwe is a mess.

However, it probably makes more sense to compare China(mainland) to Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore where ethnic Chinese is the majority. Hong Kong and Singapore were colonized by the British, Taiwan was colonized by the Dutch and Japan.

What do you think?
Parts of China were colonized, or conquered - first by the Mongols, then by Japan during certain period (the last one being WW2), also by the typical western imperial powers during the 18th and 19th century. Funny you mention Japan, the last "colonization efforts" by Japan didn't work out to well for the people of Chinese, unless genocide is seen as an improvement measure. Based on that, I can't believe any intellectual in China would endorse anything to do with Japan, quite the opposite I am sure.

China today has "caught up" to the west, in some way it has surpassed the west. But that was only after their first concept of communism was a disaster and reforms put in place. I always thought communism in some way is a perfect fit in Chinese culture, society and religion in terms of the concept of collectivism, although that certainly did not work out well under Mao. But since it has incorporated some elements of capitalism it has improved. One must note the political system of Singapore is not much different from China in terms of an authoritative government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Name one third world country that innovates better than China.
I am not sure if that's a serious statement. China, for the last century at least, does not innovate. They copy and steal from other countries. They are not communist as much as they are a mercantile country. Their economy is based on this. And trust me as I have posted here before, as a visiting businessman in a high-tech industry to china I can't visit there without someone watching where I go, bugging my room, putting spyware on my laptop, or basically recording everytime I take a crap all in the attempt to find out what my western-based company is working on.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,116,323 times
Reputation: 4555
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Taiwan is basically a U.S ally and it had the fortune of being colonized by Japan and the Dutch.
Whether Japan was a fortune or not is debatable, but the Netherlands was never a good coloniser to anyone, and it was too long ago and too brief.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 804,562 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
The Madman of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is eating up the wallpaper about China, U.S. industries are supposedly howling in unison against it, and a good share of the U.S. population poops its pants in rage at just a mention of China.

I know there are lots of "What if...." threads, but this one seems to have left the launching pad at a rather inauspicious time.

"Better"?....as in less competitive, less aggressive, less controlling, less like the U.S., and just happy to take Japan's old time jobs of exporting paper fans and incense burners?
In the post-USSR era, the U.S needs a new enemy, because belligerent Americans obsessed with us against them mentality cannot live without wars.

But there isn't another superpower on the planet.

And China, this ridiculously unfortunately third world country where most people work hard just to put food on the table, becomes the enemy, the "threat" of the U.S. It's funny that working-class Americans would rather believe China is a bigger threat than capitalism, and their money went to China, not the 0.1% billionaires in the U.S.

Had China and a handful of small Asia countries been incorporated into Japan, it would be immune to the attacks from Donald Trump.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,367 posts, read 19,297,224 times
Reputation: 8483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
China also does not innovate
That's Western nonsense. The number of Chinese patents has risen sharply over the years. No wonder, they are producing an army of engineers each year and they are among the most intelligent humans, like all East Asians.

Also, China has a very long history of innovation.

I don't think Communism is un-Chinese. In East Asia society has always been more important than the individual. They always had empires with strong leadership.

This whole thread is based on the Western assumption that China is no good. I don't agree with that at all. What is good or not is not defined by the West.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:17 AM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,599,126 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Hong Kong didn't have much democracy under British rule, but freedom was much greater than in mainland China. They also imported legal and educational system from Britain.

Taiwan is basically a U.S ally and it had the fortune of being colonized by Japan and the Dutch.

Singapore is interesting. Singapore is seen as a role model by the Chinese government because it's the only developed country that doesn't have much democracy and political freedom.

Democracy is a core value in the civilized world, which is independent of economic growth. Just as slavery may not have a direct relationship with economic growth, but it's rejected simply because people believe it's wrong. What if slavery is actually good for the economy? That's not the excuse to restore it.

Interesting enough, the communists claim that China also has democracy and freedom. They know what is right but they care about their absolute power than anything else.
To some people, "capitalism" is morally wrong too.
Why is it good to let some people exploit other people just because they have money to run a business?
Why do some landlords collect rent, but others work 10 hours a day just to pay the rent?
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