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Old 07-26-2018, 07:46 PM
 
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People from British colonies being experts when it comes to colonization theories...again.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,609,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Back to the original topic, no I don't think China could have been any better if a foreign power fully colonized it. The unequal treaties were the closest thing to colonizing China and they were bad enough. There are still vestiges of that past in China today. And I can't see how Japan as a foreign power could have improved China nor do I believe Chinese scholars actually saying this. Japan would probably have wiped out half the Chinese population and repopulated the land with ethnic Japanese had they not been stopped during the Second World War.
Exactly. It is laughable and ethnocentric to imply that China (or any other country) would benefit from colonization.

Don't forget - the colonizer or imperial power doesn't administer the territory or area chiefly for the benefit of the colonized. India suffered a famine and deindustrialization after the British took over and made the Indians grow cash crops instead of food crops. The infrastructure and legal systems which are the lasting legacy of the British, were imposed for the benefit of the rulers, not the ruled.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:07 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,813,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I am not sure if that's a serious statement. China, for the last century at least, does not innovate. They copy and steal from other countries. They are not communist as much as they are a mercantile country. Their economy is based on this. And trust me as I have posted here before, as a visiting businessman in a high-tech industry to china I can't visit there without someone watching where I go, bugging my room, putting spyware on my laptop, or basically recording everytime I take a crap all in the attempt to find out what my western-based company is working on.

He didn't say China was innovative, he said name a third world country that is more innovative than China. Would you honestly say Arab countries, Latin American countries, or African countries are more innovative than China?
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 804,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
He didn't say China was innovative, he said name a third world country that is more innovative than China. Would you honestly say Arab countries, Latin American countries, or African countries are more innovative than China?
There is a reason why Trump was elected. Simple minded people who learned everything from the media assert that China isn't innovative and it steals everything from the U.S. Sounds like they are the experts in the field, but actually they don't know what they are talking about. It's derived from the simple belief like "They are bad, we are good. America is great, America is raped by China."

Innovative is relative. It's true that the U.S is more innovative than China, but it doesn't mean China isn't innovative at all. Also, no country starts innovating from day one. Japan didn't invent automobiles, America didn't invent algebra. Nobody in technology starts from scratch.

When lay people complain about something they don't know using absolute terms like "steal everything", they are probably expressing political and moral views, which are ironically copied from some other sources. I don't expect C-D users to be half educated in STEM, but I'm still surprised that many of them struggle with basic logic.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,144,182 times
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Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Innovative is relative. It's true that the U.S is more innovative than China, but it doesn't mean China isn't innovative at all. Also, no country starts innovating from day one. Japan didn't invent automobiles, America didn't invent algebra. Nobody in technology starts from scratch.
americans were innovative about 50-100 years ago. I don't find them very innovative now. I'm almost 50 years old, and when I go back to the U.S., most of the cities and towns look exactly the same, they just have more traffic in them, and a ton more cookie-cutter houses that people rush to get to...with the same fastfood restaurants popping up among those cookie-cutter un-innovative houses.

For the most part, the U.S. is a nation of corporate interests that stamp out any individual innovation anywhere they can find it. The only innovation I see is Coke deciding to try out Cherry Coke.

I used to think our American music was innovative...but for the last 30 years, all of the videos are repeated hip-hop people imitating the same movements, the same images, the same everything. I've long looked elsewhere.

Personally I find Asian cities very innovative, creative, engaging, interesting.....more life and energy, and definitely 100% more entrepreneurship.
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:52 AM
 
12,263 posts, read 18,393,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
He didn't say China was innovative, he said name a third world country that is more innovative than China. Would you honestly say Arab countries, Latin American countries, or African countries are more innovative than China?
Why? It's irrelevant. China is not a third world country.

My response was intended to keep it relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
When lay people complain about something they don't know using absolute terms like "steal everything", they are probably expressing political and moral views, which are ironically copied from some other sources. I don't expect C-D users to be half educated in STEM, but I'm still surprised that many of them struggle with basic logic.
I laid out the basis for my claim very succinctly and with "basic logic" in a followup. I expect you to respond likewise.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:41 AM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,599,126 times
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As a (previous) third world country, China is actually doing extremely well. It was poorer than India just 30 years ago.
Such a development requires a lot of innovations, including the innovation of a system that is vastly different from the west and from the Soviet Union.

Although western media keeps criticizing China harshly in many ways, a lot of developing countries actually look up to China and adopt many ideas and policies from China.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,367 posts, read 19,297,224 times
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What goes around comes around...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06...e-pirates-too/

"Kicking away the ladder", the main problem behind all this, well documented:
https://www.amazon.com/Kicking-Away-.../dp/1843310279

IP is used as a weapon these days. Interesting how even Canada is being scolded for its supposedly poor IP protection. And why? Because there it is much harder to patent every little ****. Many applications are simply rejected.

Last edited by Neuling; 07-27-2018 at 10:00 AM..
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 804,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
China's government clearly stated that democracy is not what the country wants.
And when I look at the US for instance, I agree with them that that kind of democracy is not the way to go.
The whole idea of political parties promising things in order to increase their market shares, which of course makes them very vulnerable to manipulation, corruption etc.
Not to mention the dictatorship of the mob.
Sure, democracy is not what the Chinese government wants. If I were emperor Xi Jinping, I would be more than happy to be the king of the earth.

Yet democracy is what Chinese people want.

This subtle difference is very important.

Some westerners expect that the emerging Chinese middle class who are better educated and better informed will favor democracy and freedom, thus change the political system and ideology of China.

Now, the majority of Chinese are approval of democracy and freedom. Who doesn't? No people want a government that doesn't respect the will of its people.

But without democracy in the first place, there are very little Chinese people can do to influence politics. Without political freedom, anyone who wants to change is going to be prosecuted ruthlessly. 99% Chinese oppose lifting presidency term limit, but it happened anyway. Rebellion isn't a possibility like it was one thousand years, ordinary people cannot even defeat the police.

It sounds horrible. But the worse is on the way...

The madman Donald Trump may crush the Chinese economy within a couple of years. Beating China is indeed very easy, as Trump claimed. But the aftermath could be: the collapse of the Chinese economy may further destabilize China. A destabilized China could be a disaster for everyone. Unlike past Chinese leaders, Xi Jinping received very little formal education except for communism dogmatism because he was raised during the cultural revolution. In case China totally loses the trade war and destabilizes, desperate Xi may resort to military options. Think middle east refugees are bad enough? Try to imagine 1 billion Chinese refugees all over Eurasia.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,367 posts, read 19,297,224 times
Reputation: 8483
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Sure, democracy is not what the Chinese government wants. If I were emperor Xi Jinping, I would be more than happy to be the king of the earth.

Yet democracy is what Chinese people want.

This subtle difference is very important.

Some westerners expect that the emerging Chinese middle class who are better educated and better informed will favor democracy and freedom, thus change the political system and ideology of China.

Now, the majority of Chinese are approval of democracy and freedom. Who doesn't? No people want a government that doesn't respect the will of its people.

But without democracy in the first place, there are very little Chinese people can do to influence politics. Without political freedom, anyone who wants to change is going to be prosecuted ruthlessly. 99% Chinese oppose lifting presidency term limit, but it happened anyway. Rebellion isn't a possibility like it was one thousand years, ordinary people cannot even defeat the police.

It sounds horrible. But the worse is on the way...

The madman Donald Trump may crush the Chinese economy within a couple of years. Beating China is indeed very easy, as Trump claimed. But the aftermath could be: the collapse of the Chinese economy may further destabilize China. A destabilized China could be a disaster for everyone. Unlike past Chinese leaders, Xi Jinping received very little formal education except for communism dogmatism because he was raised during the cultural revolution. In case China totally loses the trade war and destabilizes, desperate Xi may resort to military options. Think middle east refugees are bad enough? Try to imagine 1 billion Chinese refugees all over Eurasia.
Who says the Chinese people want democracy? I don't remember any representative poll or anything.
Westerners don't understand Chinese culture and people.
Look at Russia, most people there actually support Putin, despite his authoritarian ways.

Regarding the supposed weakness of the Chinese economy, don't count your chickens before they hatch. I don't know how educated Xi is, but he probably has a whole lot of experts advising him on everything.

And the world really needs China, it is important there be more and more powerful countries that keep each other at bay.
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