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Old 07-27-2018, 10:40 AM
 
12,263 posts, read 18,393,933 times
Reputation: 19082

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
What goes around comes around...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06...e-pirates-too/

"Kicking away the ladder", the main problem behind all this, well documented:
https://www.amazon.com/Kicking-Away-.../dp/1843310279

IP is used as a weapon these days. Interesting how even Canada is being scolded for its supposedly poor IP protection. And why? Because there it is much harder to patent every little ****. Many applications are simply rejected.
That's actually a very interesting article, thanks. However I disagree to the importance it was given to American development. They gave a few comparing elements to modern china in terms of IP but I think it's way over the top in terms of impact. Really there is very little to compare to.

There is much more to it - One is that the United States not so much "stole" (in terms of industrial espionage) technology as simply attracted the best and brightest in the world via immigration. This is much different than China's methods, clearly not many Europeans or Americans are immigrating to the Peoples Republic of China. Another things is they we did not as much compete and replace old world products as much as subsititued them with better products - cotton, furs, etc. That comes from the advantages we had in natural and mineral wealth. We also had the benefit of being a stable country not ravaged by long wars and conquest. Sometimes that's just the luck of the draw in terms of country location.

One interesting situation however was the end or WW2 where we were competing with the USSR to grab all of Germany's scientists. But again, for a German, would you want to go with the Russians and make missles in Siberea, or to the US? Most of these scientists ran to the Allied lines as quick as they could to escape the Russians, and were offered and obtained successful lives in the US. Again, nothing to compare that with China. Nope, I submit there is no "what goes around comes around" conclusion here at all.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 804,562 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
americans were innovative about 50-100 years ago. I don't find them very innovative now. I'm almost 50 years old, and when I go back to the U.S., most of the cities and towns look exactly the same, they just have more traffic in them, and a ton more cookie-cutter houses that people rush to get to...with the same fastfood restaurants popping up among those cookie-cutter un-innovative houses.

For the most part, the U.S. is a nation of corporate interests that stamp out any individual innovation anywhere they can find it. The only innovation I see is Coke deciding to try out Cherry Coke.

I used to think our American music was innovative...but for the last 30 years, all of the videos are repeated hip-hop people imitating the same movements, the same images, the same everything. I've long looked elsewhere.

Personally I find Asian cities very innovative, creative, engaging, interesting.....more life and energy, and definitely 100% more entrepreneurship.
Culturally, the U.S isn't quite innovative today because everything seems to be well developed.

China isn't capable of innovating in technical fields in the scale comparable with the U.S simply because it doesn't have the technical expertise yet.

Broadly speaking, China is very innovative in areas where all you need is a good idea, not sophisticated technology/advanced industrial base. For example, restaurants in China are pretty innovative. Most restaurants in the U.S rarely change their menu, but in Shanghai, you can always find some new dish. In the tech world, Chinese startups have developed tons of new Apps, many of them are surprisingly original.

As a developing country with little science and technology foundation, China isn't going to invent big things like Hyperloop, but it keeps innovating within its capability.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,367 posts, read 19,297,224 times
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Brain drain is still a big problem and in my view a kind of crime. There are western headhunters roaming developing countries and luring the brightest people to the West, at the end of the day making developing countries even poorer. That's even worse than IP theft or product piracy.

Many of the Germans that were hired by the US and the SU after the war were Nazis. So, highly immoral behavior on the part of both the US and the SU.

And again, developing countries simply have to be illegal if they want to catch up. Technology has advanced so much that you can't repeat the technical evolution, it takes too long and costs way more than those countries can afford. Developing a plane or a CPU for instance costs billions, not to mention lots of experts.

I think China, India etc. should actually have very little IP protection, like patents that automatically run out after 2 years. So, countries that want to benefit form such giant markets, would have to live with it and adopt to it. Else they should just stay out. Nobody forces any Western company to be present in China or India.
I can't attend a gay party and then complain about the presence of gays, if you get what I mean. China is not the West, period.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 804,562 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Who says the Chinese people want democracy? I don't remember any representative poll or anything.
Westerners don't understand Chinese culture and people.
Look at Russia, most people there actually support Putin, despite his authoritarian ways.

Regarding the supposed weakness of the Chinese economy, don't count your chickens before they hatch. I don't know how educated Xi is, but he probably has a whole lot of experts advising him on everything.

And the world really needs China, it is important there be more and more powerful countries that keep each other at bay.
Wow, who says Chinese people want democracy? who says Chinese people want freedom? Chinese people, unlike the rest of the humans, prefer being slaves, working long hours, breathing dirty air.

Are you paid by the Chinese government to post all these nonsense? I wish the tax money could be better used.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:10 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,367 posts, read 19,297,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Wow, who says Chinese people want democracy? who says Chinese people want freedom? Chinese people, unlike the rest of the humans, prefer being slaves, working long hours, breathing dirty air.

Are you paid by the Chinese government to post all these nonsense? I wish the tax money could be better used.
The Chinese are not living like slaves. I have to do with Chinese people for professional reasons. Many people in the West have a rather distorted image of China. Also a rather static one that ignores how dynamically China is changing.

What has working long hours have to do with anything? Look how industrialization worked in the US. Abysmal working conditions despite democracy. Polluted air and water up until just a couple of decades ago, actually.
Even today here in Portugal people are working a lot while earning much less than the rest of Europe, there are many poor people, yet it is at the same time Portugal is one of the freest, most democratic countries in the world.

Democracy is just one system of several, and not some sort of natural law or anything as people in the West seem to think.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,800 posts, read 804,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Brain drain is still a big problem and in my view a kind of crime. There are western headhunters roaming developing countries and luring the brightest people to the West, at the end of the day making developing countries even poorer. That's even worse than IP theft or product piracy.
Can't speak for every western country but it's certainly not true in the U.S.

Visa sponsorship is expensive and complicated. Basically, nobody hunts foreign workers to ship to the U.S.

In fact, the U.S government has the strictest immigration policy in the developed world based on the belief that foreigners will only steal American jobs, among other things worth stealing.

Chinese and Indians have figured out that living in their third world cesspool country is doomed to be miserable.

That's why Indians have occupied everything from office cubes in San Jose to grocery stores in Barcelona.

As an ethnic group, the Chinese suffer from more racism than any creatures in North America. Yet Chinese immigrants are reluctant to go home because they know life is even far worse under communists rule.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:42 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,367 posts, read 19,297,224 times
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The brain drain works via college:
Increase in Foreign Student Graduates Staying and Working in U.S. | Pew Research Center
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,854 posts, read 3,416,822 times
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There is much more competition for jobs in China which is why many college graduates of Chinese ethnicity would prefer to stay in the U.S, Canada, etc. For every one job applicant here in the U.S. there are probably three in China which is why you hear of so many tiger moms and tiger dads who push their children to the limits to be number one because in China, being even number two may be a far cry from number one.

Might I add China is in the throes of an industrial revolution not unlike the one the U.S. and U.K. went through over a century ago. Of course the air is polluted, cities are crowded, corruption is rampant, and there is a growing sense of haves and have nots. Yet the U.S. suffered the same problems in decades past. Hasn't anyone heard of Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall or the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire? Didn't many workers lose their lives building New York City's subway tunnels? Sure life is harsh. Yet economically speaking, the situation isn't that much worse than China decades ago when everyone outside of the major cities had to grow their own crops and raise their own livestock. Floods, drought, and famine were much more common in the past than now. What did you think drove so many poor rural Chinese to sell themselves as indentured servants to foreigners and to emigrate to unwelcoming places to build railroads and other infrastructure? Go and visit Toisan (Taishan) County in Canton Province where many of the early Chinese immigrants came from. The place used to be so backwards that no one had running water or electricity much less paved roads but yet nowadays there are not only paved roads but streetlights, automobiles, motor scooters and supermarkets! Yes, western style supermarkets! People don't have to toil to grow their own crops anymore.

Yes, China has always been authoritarian since the days of the emperor and those who don't like the system are also among the ones who exile themselves to the Western World. If you agree with the government policies then you can live in peace and harmony but if you don't agree, then you have to hush up and keep it to yourself because the authorities do not take lightly to dissent and never have.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,509 posts, read 3,092,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Can't speak for every western country but it's certainly not true in the U.S.

As an ethnic group, the Chinese suffer from more racism than any creatures in North America. Yet Chinese immigrants are reluctant to go home because they know life is even far worse under communists rule.

uh no. Black people and dark hispanic have it worse in north america. Chinese generally get a pass from anglos because they are deemed nonthreatening and assimilate and can be exploited as cheap hightech labor usually.


only deblasio hates chinese people
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Old 07-28-2018, 06:56 AM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,599,126 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
uh no. Black people and dark hispanic have it worse in north america. Chinese generally get a pass from anglos because they are deemed nonthreatening and assimilate and can be exploited as cheap hightech labor usually.


only deblasio hates chinese people
It depends on how you look at it.
Hollywood movies and the TV shows have more black and Hispanic roles than Asian roles, especially males.
White women are more likely to marry/date Hispanic and black men than Asian men.
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