U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-30-2018, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,859 posts, read 3,422,274 times
Reputation: 1801

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post

In fact, traditional Chinese culture more or less endorses the idea that humans are born equal. The rebellion at the end of Qin Dynasty, for example, started with the slogan "Are kings and nobles born to be superior"? Often times in Chinese history, some poor peasants started a revolution (most failed). Western culture is very different.
Yes Western culture is very different which is why Westerners do not always understand why Chinese behave differently. Why for example do Chinese children (especially the eldest child) often live with their parents long after they came of age and do not simply move out and live on their own which Western children often do? How come a younger sibling in a family never addresses an older sibling by name but merely as "older brother" or "older sister"? Why is it that Chinese are told from a very young age not to question authority? Could these all be lasting traditions based on some rule an ancient sage had mentioned long ago?

Your statements are not entirely untrue but in actual fact represent a series of contradicting beliefs that have plagued China since ancient times. As I mentioned in my previous post, there were different schools of Confucian thought that competed with each other, some schools emphasized the egalitarianism you implied and the need to morally rectify your superiors in the event they are wrong (kind of the reformist type of Confucianism) while others emphasized an individual's strict unquestionable authority over the rest of the population (an emperor to his people as a father to his family - wife and children). Add to this the beliefs of Lao Tzu (Daoism), Mo Zi (Mohism), and Buddha, and you have many competing thoughts that sometimes blended peacefully but other times clashed violently with each other.

[How do I know all of this? Well for starters, I witness some of these practices in my own family. That and I took a History of Chinese Philosophy course while studying abroad one semester in Hong Kong years ago.]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-30-2018, 08:06 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,407 posts, read 19,318,864 times
Reputation: 8496
The respect thingy is mostly based on age, it used to be like that in Europe as well. Here in Portugal up until not long ago, but it is eroding and now one sometimes hears of the opposite, i.e. young people abusing and killing old people. For instance drug addicts that torture their parents for years.

People in India traditionally also live with their parents until they get married. Japan also has a lot of respect for elders.

The whole Western idea that people are supposed to kind of break with their families and move away with their own families is more like what less developed animals tend to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-30-2018, 01:35 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Yes Western culture is very different which is why Westerners do not always understand why Chinese behave differently. Why for example do Chinese children (especially the eldest child) often live with their parents long after they came of age and do not simply move out and live on their own which Western children often do? How come a younger sibling in a family never addresses an older sibling by name but merely as "older brother" or "older sister"? Why is it that Chinese are told from a very young age not to question authority? Could these all be lasting traditions based on some rule an ancient sage had mentioned long ago?

Your statements are not entirely untrue but in actual fact represent a series of contradicting beliefs that have plagued China since ancient times. As I mentioned in my previous post, there were different schools of Confucian thought that competed with each other, some schools emphasized the egalitarianism you implied and the need to morally rectify your superiors in the event they are wrong (kind of the reformist type of Confucianism) while others emphasized an individual's strict unquestionable authority over the rest of the population (an emperor to his people as a father to his family - wife and children). Add to this the beliefs of Lao Tzu (Daoism), Mo Zi (Mohism), and Buddha, and you have many competing thoughts that sometimes blended peacefully but other times clashed violently with each other.

[How do I know all of this? Well for starters, I witness some of these practices in my own family. That and I took a History of Chinese Philosophy course while studying abroad one semester in Hong Kong years ago.]
So China has different thoughts and different people. Surprised? I have never been taught "not to question the authority" though. I don't know if you mean that literally.

Maybe Westerners are the abnormalities sometimes?
China was an agricultural society, so of course children didn't move away. You have no land to farm elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-30-2018, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,806 posts, read 808,823 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Yes Western culture is very different which is why Westerners do not always understand why Chinese behave differently. Why for example do Chinese children (especially the eldest child) often live with their parents long after they came of age and do not simply move out and live on their own which Western children often do?
It's also very common in Spain for two reasons - economic recession and family oriented culture.

Western isn't necessarily American.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-31-2018, 09:32 PM
 
2,781 posts, read 1,016,942 times
Reputation: 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The respect thingy is mostly based on age, it used to be like that in Europe as well. Here in Portugal up until not long ago, but it is eroding and now one sometimes hears of the opposite, i.e. young people abusing and killing old people. For instance drug addicts that torture their parents for years.

People in India traditionally also live with their parents until they get married. Japan also has a lot of respect for elders.

The whole Western idea that people are supposed to kind of break with their families and move away with their own families is more like what less developed animals tend to do.
I've not gone over the whole thread, but this post made me jump.

Having respect and keeping in touch with one's family is one thing. That doesn't mean that one should keep on living with his parents indefinitely. That's harmful to the individual's development.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2018, 12:49 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,670,472 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I've not gone over the whole thread, but this post made me jump.

Having respect and keeping in touch with one's family is one thing. That doesn't mean that one should keep on living with his parents indefinitely. That's harmful to the individual's development.

Maybe it's the American implications you are talking about. In Asia, when saying children are living with their parents, it doesn't imply that the parents are the ones supporting their children. In the US, such living arrangements may be termed parents living with their children (implying it is the children who are now supporting the parents). There is no difference in most of Asia when one says "son living with parents" or "parents living with their adult son". There's nothing harmful to an individual's development if one is supporting one's parents. Such living arrangements are common in Asia as well as the rest of the world. From an Asian cultural perspective, it's actually even worthy of praise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2018, 09:02 PM
 
2,781 posts, read 1,016,942 times
Reputation: 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Maybe it's the American implications you are talking about. In Asia, when saying children are living with their parents, it doesn't imply that the parents are the ones supporting their children. In the US, such living arrangements may be termed parents living with their children (implying it is the children who are now supporting the parents). There is no difference in most of Asia when one says "son living with parents" or "parents living with their adult son". There's nothing harmful to an individual's development if one is supporting one's parents. Such living arrangements are common in Asia as well as the rest of the world. From an Asian cultural perspective, it's actually even worthy of praise.
I was more looking into the dependency aspect of it. Of course, there are many instances where kids live with their parents to support them. Nothing wrong with that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-03-2018, 12:23 AM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,849,911 times
Reputation: 3063
Empowering culture of their own. Outside exotic oppressors isn’t in the history to ever completely erode past atmosphere. Including what they give out to Planet Earth. All of those extra precious materials of commodities. Extending beyond economies framework. Maybe too overly significantly producing considering Tibet, Xinjiang, and even Guangxi, Qinghai, Gansu, Inner Mongolia aren’t in the clean record to absorb themselves into the picture always very often. http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Provin...nce-Yunnan.jpg Wanting to separate geopolitical units.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2018, 09:17 PM
 
9 posts, read 1,625 times
Reputation: 30
Default Wow okay

So I’ll try to break my response into points. I am definitely not an expert on the great complexity and paradox that is China. But I have been interested in it and have researched its history and culture, since, well as long as could actively do that as a child. I spent three summers in a culture exchange program there when I was a teen, I’ve lived there the past four years and I am married to a local. So Expert, no. Opinionated, YES.

- When approaching blanket statements that cover how Chinese people think or ar raised you need to be careful. Surprise! China is actually a very ethnically diverse culture with many people groups who have different traditions and literally speak different languages. Most foreigners look and just think- All the same, but they are literally different people groups all under the banner of Chinese. Mandarin is the national language or as they say “the common tongue” but in everyday life or with their family most people speak in their dialect. While there are plenty things common in all parts of China there are many more that vary from city to city. The perception of China identity is partly Western ignorance and a big part of early communist propaganda coipled with actions taken to unify the country when it was falling apart.

-The OP could have two meanings. One, which several people already mentioned I did not take away from the OP which is should China be colonized or “occupied” now and would it benefit China and in short, NO.
The second meaning that I originally understood was WOULD China HAVE benefited from being colonized in the past. Which is literally impossible to answer because of anthousand contributing factors that have held China back apart from communism.

-China was the most advanced civilization for a longer time period than America has even existed. The Chinese originally invented most of the stuff we use every day. Toilet paper, I mean come on guys.

-The last time China let in western ideals and political beliefs, hello-communism.

-Part of the China’s contradictions are the split between A. China and it’s rich traditional culture and history. And B. PRC government and its modern history of civil war, famine, invasion etc.

-Comparing mainland China to Singapore, Hong Kong or even Taiwan is laughable for several reasons but most of all- population. It’s a huge factor . Have you noticed that most countries praised with high standards like Sweden, Australias, Singapore etc have small populations? Yeah, it turns out government policies and taxes work a lot better when they are taking care of less people and implemented on a much smaller scale. The only comparisons that really work are India and pretty much Africa as a whole. Contrary to popular western belief, these countries had a lot of advancements, politics, religion, culture etc before failed colonizations that ultimately left them worse off and only provided a few things that they would have learned on their own in a decade or so. Let’s be honest, European, especially British colonization was about what benefited the colonizers and taking, not giving to a another country.

-China would, essentially/probably, be Taiwan if it wasn’t for Russian interference. That’s another story you can research yourself. Add in civil wars, Japanese invasion which a previous post pointed out crippled China oh and famine and oh, you know a massive population, we can understand why China is “behind”. If it weren’t for these factors we’d probably all have been colonized by China to be honest.

-There’s literally a thousand more points to discuss about the obstacles that have faced China that I won’t get into to so conclusions.

-China has finally, after years in the dark literally trying to survive and recover as a nation, arrived at a point where they can see progress. And the progress they have had in the past even 10 years is amazing. If they continue like this they will be fine in a natural course of time. China is increasingly innovative. Besides getting married and just loving China in general, it would be difficult for me to move back to the states because of how advanced and convenient everyday life really is here.

-The biggest issue in which China needs to advance is human rights which again, if you have been fighting to survive you can’t afford to focus on these things. There is more and more awareness on these issues everyday and more and more actions being taken. Is there a long way to go, yes. But they are going. It was only a few decades ago that in the US we had segregation. Within many people’s living memory. And today there are till huge issues with racism. Every country has its issues and trauma doesn’t magically disappear.

-The biggest hindrance in China right now is the older generation who lived through hell, basically, and are still in survival mode and taught that to their kids. The younger generations are changing and thinking and growing at an ecsessive rate. Unfortunately, as a previous post pointed out, because of western glorification, especially of the US, most of these free-thinking, educated citizens leave China.

-My father-in -law tells me lies he believes about America everyday. A lot of people genuinely believe all Americans look like Captain America and Cinderella. Similar to how most Americans think Bruce Lee is an accurate depiction of all Chinese people. *cough cough* However, overall I think we (foreigners especially in the U.K. and America) are much more ignorant of their culture than they are of ours.

-Western ideals, standards, beliefs etc are not the standard for “advanced” culture. This mindset is much like the first American settlers who wanted to take the ignorant savage “Indians” by teaching them to think and act like them. A better topic for conversation is would the world have been better without British colonization?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2018, 02:10 PM
 
4,338 posts, read 2,267,196 times
Reputation: 5589
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeLeEveryday View Post
So I’ll try to break my response into points. I am definitely not an expert on the great complexity and paradox that is China. But I have been interested in it and have researched its history and culture, since, well as long as could actively do that as a child. I spent three summers in a culture exchange program there when I was a teen, I’ve lived there the past four years and I am married to a local. So Expert, no. Opinionated, YES.

- When approaching blanket statements that cover how Chinese people think or ar raised you need to be careful. Surprise! China is actually a very ethnically diverse culture with many people groups who have different traditions and literally speak different languages. Most foreigners look and just think- All the same, but they are literally different people groups all under the banner of Chinese. Mandarin is the national language or as they say “the common tongue” but in everyday life or with their family most people speak in their dialect. While there are plenty things common in all parts of China there are many more that vary from city to city. The perception of China identity is partly Western ignorance and a big part of early communist propaganda coipled with actions taken to unify the country when it was falling apart.
...
-My father-in -law tells me lies he believes about America everyday. A lot of people genuinely believe all Americans look like Captain America and Cinderella. Similar to how most Americans think Bruce Lee is an accurate depiction of all Chinese people. *cough cough* However, overall I think we (foreigners especially in the U.K. and America) are much more ignorant of their culture than they are of ours.

-Western ideals, standards, beliefs etc are not the standard for “advanced” culture. This mindset is much like the first American settlers who wanted to take the ignorant savage “Indians” by teaching them to think and act like them. A better topic for conversation is would the world have been better without British colonization?

Nicely summarized and having visited China numerous times over the last 20 years I agree with your perspective and conclusions. It's nice in the West to talk about human rights but in China Government policy missteps can literally result in millions of deaths. I have a great deal of admiration of how well the last 20 years has been managed in China in the face of enormous challenges. Different does not = bad in the case of the Chinese system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top