U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-21-2018, 09:31 AM
 
40 posts, read 10,640 times
Reputation: 58

Advertisements

You know what China government is doing in Hong Kong? They migrated a lot of mainland Chinese to Hong Kong after 1997. They aimed to replace Hong Kong people with mainland Chinese in order to make Hong Kong more easy to manage. Their policy (which is not officially announced) is that mainland Chinese in Hong Kong seems to be managed with China style and practices while Hong Kong people remains being managed by Hong Kong style. The trend is to import more and more mainland Chinese to make a new Hong Kong. "One country two systems" policy is actually partially destroyed and will be totally thrown away soon.



To Hong Kong people, they showed many barbarian ruling style and turned any political issues or opposing voices into legal issues. That's tragedy. They adopted an attitude that Hong Kong is like that now, if you don't like, please migrate to other countries. I think the Hong Kong government should set up an "Migration Fund" for those who don't want to stay to apply. Hong Kong people has the right to live in Hong Kong. If anyone can't live in Hong Kong for any reasons (due to the government's ruling), the government should provide a fund for them to leave.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-21-2018, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,613,293 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus View Post
Yeah, my family that lives in Singapore is mostly Hakka and Teochew so it's interesting that their kids are somewhat forced to be Mandarin-only speaking.

To be honest I do think some people might not see Singapore as normal...some of their restrictions on "freedoms" are far more similar to China than the western world.
Well the SG government wants to promote a common language that doesn't favor one dialect group over the other so Mandarin has been promoted (all those speak Mandarin campaigns for decades).

I concur that Singapore does have a fair amount of restrictions in terms of both civic behavior - such as fines and other penalties ("Singapore is a 'fine' country), as well as media and press restrictions that are often used to hamstring the token political opposition in the parliament.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 806,102 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus View Post
Yeah, my family that lives in Singapore is mostly Hakka and Teochew so it's interesting that their kids are somewhat forced to be Mandarin-only speaking.

To be honest I do think some people might not see Singapore as normal...some of their restrictions on "freedoms" are far more similar to China than the western world.
Political freedom is basically nonexistent in Singapore.

But few people seem to care about the dark side of Singapore. Singapore is the only developed country that I have zero interest in visiting/living. It's practically an affluent version of North Korea.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:50 PM
 
501 posts, read 461,668 times
Reputation: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Political freedom is basically nonexistent in Singapore.

But few people seem to care about the dark side of Singapore. Singapore is the only developed country that I have zero interest in visiting/living. It's practically an affluent version of North Korea.

That's not really true. Singapore has way more freedom of speech, association, voting, etc. than North Korea. Yes the ruling party stacks things in their favor, yes the libel laws and public stability laws limit free speech, but these are laws and are well defined. You cannot just get kidnapped and arrested and never charged with anything because the current party in power doesn't like you. They don't, to my knowledge, currently have any prisoners of conscience in Singapore (although that used to happen quite often), and the penalties now for breaking these types of laws is typically monetary.


Of course I don't agree with many of these types of laws, but to compare it to North Korea is absurd.



And the citizens of Singapore are free to leave any time they way, free to pursue any form of employment they want, have relatively uncensored access to the internet (some porn sites are blocked), free to join any political party they want, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2018, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,857 posts, read 3,418,591 times
Reputation: 1801
Quote:
Originally Posted by citybee View Post
You know what China government is doing in Hong Kong? They migrated a lot of mainland Chinese to Hong Kong after 1997. They aimed to replace Hong Kong people with mainland Chinese in order to make Hong Kong more easy to manage. Their policy (which is not officially announced) is that mainland Chinese in Hong Kong seems to be managed with China style and practices while Hong Kong people remains being managed by Hong Kong style. The trend is to import more and more mainland Chinese to make a new Hong Kong. "One country two systems" policy is actually partially destroyed and will be totally thrown away soon.



To Hong Kong people, they showed many barbarian ruling style and turned any political issues or opposing voices into legal issues. That's tragedy. They adopted an attitude that Hong Kong is like that now, if you don't like, please migrate to other countries. I think the Hong Kong government should set up an "Migration Fund" for those who don't want to stay to apply. Hong Kong people has the right to live in Hong Kong. If anyone can't live in Hong Kong for any reasons (due to the government's ruling), the government should provide a fund for them to leave.
I don't think Beijing coerced anyone to settle in Hong Kong. Inasmuch that the P.R.C. is authoritarian, they didn't march anyone over the border from Shenzhen and ordered them to stay in Hong Kong until the S.A.R. is fully Sinicized. Rather, Beijing quietly permitted Mainland Chinese to visit or settle in Hong Kong as often as they want which is why during the past decade, huge crowds of Mainlanders packed Hong Kong. Hong Kong's pro-Beijing political and business leadership agreed as well because the influx means more money in their pockets. They don't really care about the common people. The process happened more gradually than you think though. I was in Hong Kong in 2002 when it was much more normal and streets were not packed to the brim, not even Nathan Road in Kowloon. China at the time actually heavily restricted Mainlanders from crossing into Hong Kong. The few Mainlanders that settled in Hong Kong at the time either already had relatives there or were quick to assimilate. I was in Hong Kong again in 2011 and it was then that I noticed the great change. The streets were much more crowded, even in places like Yuen Long, Tuen Mun, and Tai Po, which were not as crowded before, simplified character publications appeared twofold, prices for groceries and merchandise went up so much even this Chinese American found them pricey, and yes the vast majority of visitors were clearly Mainland Chinese as opposed to the Japanese and Koreans that flocked to Hong Kong only 9 years earlier. Simply said I had a more pleasant time in 2002 than 2011. It is not that simple though. Many Hong Kong Chinese rely on Mainland business and have to welcome Mainland visitors even if begrudgingly so. Otherwise who else will buy their merchandise?

I read that in recent years the flow of Mainlanders into Hong Kong has slowed and some businesses actually had to shut their doors due to the loss of business. Some of those are probably the ones who moved to Taiwan, the Mainland, or elsewhere for better economic opportunities. What else can I say? The Mainland is going wild with capitalism but maybe it is Hong Kong that now needs to step back and become more socialist in order to provide better well-being for its inhabitants.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2018, 09:06 AM
 
40 posts, read 10,640 times
Reputation: 58
Yes, Beijing had never coerced anyone to settle in Hong Kong. They just "permitted", "allowed" this to happen. That's enough! Many people took this chance to move to Hong Kong, together with their mainland culture. They did really contribute to the economy, but it's limited to those businessmen only! To common people, they just "helped" to make the cost of living even higher and higher.


The time in 2002 and 2011 is a good comparison! You can see there are obvious changes in Hong Kong. Many areas of Hong Kong, like nathan road, Yuen Long and may be more areas, are actually controlled by mainlanders and triad society. They aren't only conducting illegal industries. Unfortunately, they are nearly in every industry! Banks, insurance, retails, restaurants and even professionals are under their controls.



To conclude, Hong Kong is corrupted as the core value is totally damaged by those guys. No customer service, no customer relationship. When the staff/company made a mistake, they won't admit. They just tried every effort to hide the truth and their faults by quoting "company policies", "terms", "rules" to you in order to prove that they are right. I was the victim. Complaints to banks and insurance policies were ignored. When you raised out complaints to the authority, they did every "dirty things" to disturb and defame you and destroy your business because you pointed out their faults. Reported to the police, no reply no follow up. Hong Kong has died.



Why do those mainlanders always talk about "company policies, terms, rules" when there are troubles? Maybe they think that's what meant by "to rule Hong Kong with laws". However, they don't understand this refers to crimes, illegal activies, triad societys, etc. They put this attitude and style in commercial as well! A company should talk about "customer service and relationship" with their customers instead of bringing out policies, terms, rules to annoy their customers. Also, they also applied this approach to general people's opposing comments toward the government. If existing "laws" can't put them to prison, they either try every effort to find a law to sue them or revise/re-interpret related law in order to make them "violated the laws". How can any normal people believe that this actually is happening in Hong Kong everyday?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2018, 01:11 PM
 
1,505 posts, read 523,192 times
Reputation: 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus View Post
Hm I don't get it. Sure these figures are a few years old but Singapore is majority Chinese by far (75%) and Chinese is the predominant language spoken as well (36% for Mandarin, 17% for other dialects of Chinese)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...pore#Languages
There is a current trend, however, in Singapore, that English is growing even faster than Mandarin as the language spoken at home by the Chinese. Meanwhile, other Chinese dialects decline in popularity as languages spoken at home.

Also, most Hong Kongers would object to the compulsory military service required for every male citizen in Singapore. Taiwan also formerly had compulsory military service but they abolished it a few years back.

Taipei is supposedly cheaper than both Hong Kong and Singapore, too. And Taipei is already the most expensive city in Taiwan. Meanwhile, Singapore was ranked the world's most expensive city by The Economist, even more expensive than Hong Kong. (Admittedly, The Economist's calculation of cost of living was flawed--Singapore real estate may not be cheaper than Taipei but it is still much cheaper than Hong Kong real estate. But The Economist still insists Singapore is the most expensive because Singapore taxes the hell out of cars, making Singapore the most expensive country to own a car. But seriously, who needs a car in Singapore when you have the wonderful MRT? Conversely, you'd probably need a car in Taiwan, outside of Taipei and maybe Kaohsiung.)

But to their credit, Taiwan has a high speed rail from Taipei to Kaohsiung, whereas Singapore and Kuala Lumpur have yet to build one.

Hong Kongers also like their (political) freedom and democracy. The Economist's Democracy Index rates Taiwan at 7.73, similar to Belgium and the Czech Republic, while Singapore and Hong Kong rank at 6.32 and 6.31, respectively, more similar to Mexico, Indonesia, and Tunisia.

Hong Kongers also don't want muggy climate all year round like in Singapore. They'd prefer winter to at least cool off a bit, like in Taipei. (Although Singapore is actually significantly cooler than either Hong Kong or Taipei in the summer, AND NEVER sees typhoons OR earthquakes, unlike Taipei).

Lastly, Hong Kongers (and Cantonese people in general) are infamous in China for being meticulous about their food. "Eat in Guangzhou," as the saying goes. Only authentic Southern Chinese food will cut it. Sure, there is plenty of authentic Southern Chinese food in Singapore, but the local cuisine in Singapore, the Peranakan cuisine, is a fusion between Chinese food, Malay satay, and Indian curry (many Hong Kongers aren't too fond of the pungent spices in Indian or Southeast Asian food).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2018, 01:17 PM
 
1,505 posts, read 523,192 times
Reputation: 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus View Post
Yeah, my family that lives in Singapore is mostly Hakka and Teochew so it's interesting that their kids are somewhat forced to be Mandarin-only speaking.

To be honest I do think some people might not see Singapore as normal...some of their restrictions on "freedoms" are far more similar to China than the western world.
Like I said in another post, true, Taiwan is much more democratic than either Singapore or Taiwan. But consider this: Singapore has the greatest economic freedom in the world (second only to Hong Kong) as per the Heritage Foundation's "Economic Freedom of the World" Index.

Also consider that Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index has deemed Singapore the least corrupt nation in Asia. Yes you read that right. Singapore is less corrupt than not only China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, but also Japan, Germany, the US, and the UK. On the other hand, Taiwan suffers more corruption than the US and Hong Kong. Guess what? In Asia, democracy and transparency don't always go hand in hand.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2018, 01:36 PM
 
1,505 posts, read 523,192 times
Reputation: 1129
Personally, if I were living in Hong Kong, I would choose Singapore over Taiwan. I can see why, though, alot of other Hong Kongers prefer Taiwan to Singapore (see my other post).

But all in all, compared to Taipei AND Hong Kong, Singapore is:
--Less corrupt,
--Easier to start a business,
--Safer (the violent crime rate is at least as low as that in Tokyo)
--More affluent (higher GDP per capita than Taipei, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Los Angeles, Dubai, Zurich etc.)
--cleaner (the city is slum-free and meticulously planned and organized into government built public housing, which is all well-maintained and constantly rennovated. The rest of the city is comprised of fabulously rich condos, expensive office skyscrapers, and carefully preserved, charming colonial architecture and historic shophouses.)
--More environmental (gov't requires energy efficiency standards in most buildings, the air and drinking water quality is cleaner than any other Asian city except maybe parts of Japan),
--Has a stronger, more diversified economy,
--Has better universities (Nanyang Tech and National U of Singapore are top in Asia, especially for engineering),
--Has better K-12 education (English is the language of instruction in ALL schools, Singapore had the world's highest math, science scores in the PISA 2015 tests)
--Has far less traffic than Taipei (because cars are expensive in Singapore, only the rich drive cars)
--The world's best airport
--Has better roads than Taipei (not only are all the roads meticulously paved and maintained, they're also well marked and planted with so much lush landscaping, it looks like you're driving around Disneyworld)

I could go on and on about the museums, the food, the botanical gardens (it's free, AND it's a UNESCO world heritage site), the zoo, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2018, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,154,437 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Personally, if I were living in Hong Kong, I would choose Singapore over Taiwan. I can see why, though, alot of other Hong Kongers prefer Taiwan to Singapore (see my other post).
I like all three - Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

HK-SG seems very lateral to me. While there are major differences, Singapore suffers from being an highly urban city-state much like how Hong Kong operates.

The HK to Taiwan, in my opinion, operates much like the SG to Malaysia effect. People who work in highly urbanized cities, with busy working lives, and live in tiny small little apartments....begin to think, what if I just worked in a less busy place...and had a bigger house on less money, but felt more comfortable and more relaxed.

That's where Taiwan fits in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top