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Old 08-17-2018, 04:50 PM
 
196 posts, read 133,942 times
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I came across this article recently and now it seems the numbers of Hong Kong people moving to Taiwan has increased very tremendously. Macau citizens are also included as well

They said as of December 2016, 71,263 Hong Kong and Macau citizens were approved visas to move to Taiwan.

Given that many of the Hong Kong/Macau immigrants that move to Taiwan are usually likely to settle in Tapiei, it is enough to create their own enclave in the city as large as any Chinatowns in western countries.

But, it is no surprise because of the political situation going on, a lot of them are going to Taiwan, which is more democratic at this time and their political/cultural views are pretty similar to each other.
Taiwan may not have been conquered by a western country like Hong Kong did, but there was a lot of influence of the western cultures just as much as Hong Kong received because of America and other European countries being involved to protect the country including Taiwan was more opened arms to other countries with business and cultural exchanges than Mainland China was. Japan had conquered them for 50 years and they brought in Japanese influence, but also the western influence they had picked up from the western countries.

I wonder how long will this migration of Hong Kong/Macau immigrants will last?
Hopefully at some point, China will become more democratic. They have already adapted to western cultures already and interactive with other countries on business and politics and their entertainment is already very westernized. They are part of the UN, so hopefully they will become more influenced from the western countries to be more democratic and open minded. It looks like it will take time and hopefully by then their political/cultural views will be similar to Hong Kong if not entirely.

https://www.voanews.com/a/hong-kong-...s/4232788.html
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
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Many older Chinese who settled in Hong Kong fled the Chinese Communist revolution in 1949 or even thereafter and are by nature spiteful of the Beijing regime. They may not necessarily support democracy but generally speaking are anti-CCP. Others, especially the younger generation are struggling to afford Hong Kong and want to relocate to a place that is more affordable and less stressful in terms of work.

Don't get your hopes high on China becoming more democratic anytime soon. It takes the head of the government to make a decision on which direction the country must take. It happened with Chiang Ching Kuo in 1987 in the R.OC. government because he didn't want to follow in the footsteps of his father and continuously rule with an iron fist which is why the R.OC. government gradually become more democratic until it allowed for multi-party rule. Otherwise Taiwan would have continued to be ruled dictatorially under a one party rule until today. It also happened with Mikhail Gorbachev and his perestroika in the U.S.S.R. in 1991. Could Xi Jin Ping also pull a Gorbachev if he so wishes? Probably so but right now it does not look like he is following in that direction. China (the Mainland that is) is at the height of her power right now and does not see the need to end one party rule.

Until then, don't be surprised if more Hong Kong, Macau, and even some Mainland residents leave for greener pastures.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:50 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Taiwan is a small island. It it a good idea to allow a lot of immigration?
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:15 PM
 
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My ex-girlfriend was a Hong Konger and she married a Taiwanese man, and moved there. I think Hong Kongers have a lot more in common with Taiwanese then mainlanders. So, I don't think a Hong Kong enclave is going to exist. Hong Kongers will more or less mold into society. What *many* Hong Kongers want (democracy and self-rule) is more or less what Taiwan offers.
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
My ex-girlfriend was a Hong Konger and she married a Taiwanese man, and moved there. I think Hong Kongers have a lot more in common with Taiwanese then mainlanders. So, I don't think a Hong Kong enclave is going to exist. Hong Kongers will more or less mold into society. What *many* Hong Kongers want (democracy and self-rule) is more or less what Taiwan offers.
Well your point may be accurate in terms of wanting political autonomy from Beijing (though there are also a lot of Hong Kong Chinese who now support Beijing and don't care for democracy) but don't forget that the majority of Hong Kong Chinese are Cantonese and so culturally and linguistically, they have a lot more in common with Mainland Cantonese than the Taiwanese, most of whom migrated from Fukien Province and elsewhere centuries ago. I could cross over the border into Shenzhen from Hong Kong (which I and all of my relatives have done several times in the past) and still easily could find the same cuisine, the same cultural customs and beliefs, and even people who speak the same standard Cantonese language as people in Hong Kong. There are only subtle differences such as the use of simplified characters in the Mainland and traditional characters in Hong Kong and of course driving on the left vs. driving on the right. I doubt I could do the same in Taipei where people generally speak Standard Mandarin or Southern Min. The food in Taiwan is different than Cantonese cuisine as I am sure are some of the customs. Without a guide or assistant, I am sure many Hong Kong Chinese would feel like true foreigners and would want to congregate with people that share the same customs (i.e. fellow Cantonese).

So in short, if enough Hong Kong Chinese move to Taiwan, there likely will initially be enclaves even if they disappear over time.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:02 PM
 
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Taiwan is the last "normal" place with Chinese as the majority in the world since Hong Kong is corrupted!

Hong Kong people actually find it easier to accept Taiwan culture than the mainland China culture.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Well your point may be accurate in terms of wanting political autonomy from Beijing (though there are also a lot of Hong Kong Chinese who now support Beijing and don't care for democracy) but don't forget that the majority of Hong Kong Chinese are Cantonese and so culturally and linguistically, they have a lot more in common with Mainland Cantonese than the Taiwanese, most of whom migrated from Fukien Province and elsewhere centuries ago. I could cross over the border into Shenzhen from Hong Kong (which I and all of my relatives have done several times in the past) and still easily could find the same cuisine, the same cultural customs and beliefs, and even people who speak the same standard Cantonese language as people in Hong Kong. There are only subtle differences such as the use of simplified characters in the Mainland and traditional characters in Hong Kong and of course driving on the left vs. driving on the right. I doubt I could do the same in Taipei where people generally speak Standard Mandarin or Southern Min. The food in Taiwan is different than Cantonese cuisine as I am sure are some of the customs. Without a guide or assistant, I am sure many Hong Kong Chinese would feel like true foreigners and would want to congregate with people that share the same customs (i.e. fellow Cantonese).

So in short, if enough Hong Kong Chinese move to Taiwan, there likely will initially be enclaves even if they disappear over time.
Well - historically, post 1949 Taiwan saw a big influx of mainlanders coming over with the KMT regime. A lot of them were military and their dependents and they did settle into their own military dependents' villages or communities - so there was this big divide in society for quite some time - though over generations this disappeared.

I don't see that quite happening with HKers moving to Taiwan and forming their own enclaves - for a couple of reasons

1) fewer relative in number

2) no formal residential segregation

You may have a few HKers of course gather around because of familiarity - which is natural, but I'd expect that they'd probably integrate and assimilate faster than the 1949 influx of mainlanders. Though on the other hand, since it's very easy to go back and forth between HK and Taiwan - many flights every day - it may be easy for them to hold on to their identity more.

Food? Heck, you can get all sorts of regional Chinese cuisine in Taiwan, even Cantonese cuisine. The HKers I know visiting Taiwan like the local stuff.

Last edited by silverkris; 08-19-2018 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
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I could've sworn we had a thread on this awhile back. I clicked on this thinking someone had revived it.

Anyway, yes I know some Macanese who have relocated to Taipei and a year or two ago I watched a documentary about it. I am unaware if there are any enclaves though, and the ones I know who moved are assimilated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citybee View Post
Taiwan is the last "normal" place with Chinese as the majority in the world since Hong Kong is corrupted!
Is Singapore normal? Also perhaps Penang? Just wondering your thoughts.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 806,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Taiwan is a small island. It it a good idea to allow a lot of immigration?
Aging population problem.

Japan is even more crowded, but it has become the easiest developed country to immigrate to.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:16 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 806,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Well - historically, post 1949 Taiwan saw a big influx of mainlanders coming over with the KMT regime. A lot of them were military and their dependents and they did settle into their own military dependents' villages or communities - so there was this big divide in society for quite some time - though over generations this disappeared.

I don't see that quite happening with HKers moving to Taiwan and forming their own enclaves - for a couple of reasons

1) fewer relative in number

2) no formal residential segregation

You may have a few HKers of course gather around because of familiarity - which is natural, but I'd expect that they'd probably integrate and assimilate faster than the 1949 influx of mainlanders. Though on the other hand, since it's very easy to go back and forth between HK and Taiwan - many flights every day - it may be easy for them to hold on to their identity more.

Food? Heck, you can get all sorts of regional Chinese cuisine in Taiwan, even Cantonese cuisine. The HKers I know visiting Taiwan like the local stuff.
Segregation is a strong word. There's basically no segregation among Han Chinese in history. The concept of segregation is as foreign as chicken fried bacon to Chinese.

Linguistically, both mainland and Taiwan speak Mandarin whereas Hong Kong still speaks Cantonese as its primary language. Actually, a lot of Taiwanese immigrated from Fujian(historically Taiwan was part of Fujian if my memory serves), that's why Southern Min is spoken in Taiwan as well. The majority of Taiwan residents today were the descendants from recent immigrants from the mainland. There are aboriginals like Native Americans in Taiwan, but the number is negligible.

But, wait, why do they bother to immigrate to Taiwan where the economy is worse? Isn't Canada the most popular choice among Hong Kong people?
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