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Old 10-09-2018, 01:35 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,639,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Limited and regulated capitalism. with protection for the prey of hucksters.

You dont think there was malnutrition in pre-Mao China?
Yes, regulated capitalism is the way to go. People will always be greedy and thats why we need protection and regulations. Going the complete opposite way of ending private property is not the correct response to greed.

Of course there was malnutrition before Mao, but it doesn't take a history nut to see what happened after the communists took over up until they start giving up authority and control. My family lived through the civil war, Henan famine, and then Maoism. When the famine ended, the starvation should have stopped, but it didn't. The reason it didn't is because the government decided that it was going to start forceable relocating people. My dad who never stepped foot on a farm was forced to work in wheat fields. He had no idea what he was doing and not many of those around him did either. He worked in a shipyard prior that his family owned.
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,516 posts, read 3,099,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Itís a statistical fact.

Though a lot of totalitarians claim to be Marxist but actually arenít.

why don't you move to cuba, china, or venezuela then?
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,360 posts, read 546,761 times
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China always has Marx in its mind. Last April Chinese government donated a 14-ft bronze Karl Marx statue to his hometown in the city of Trier in South Germany despite a lot of criticism from German themselves.

And actually China is very alien to anyone who believes in traditional Chinese values. Go watch some of their popular singing shows on TV. They always sing such songs like "Moscow Nights", "By Lake Baikal",...etc. Some of the singers even have tears in their eyes.

I can't understand why Moscow or Lake Baikal would overwhelm those Chinese so much. And I bet most of them haven't visited either Moscow or Lake Baikal.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:40 PM
 
5,185 posts, read 4,675,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
And it does not have much to do with Marxism per se. It was Mao's radical economic policy.
Just how was Mao radical?

He was a teddy bear with the "national" bourgeois compared to Stalin & Lenin.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,603 posts, read 2,652,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Just how was Mao radical?

He was a teddy bear with the "national" bourgeois compared to Stalin & Lenin.
The soviet councils set up after the revolution were moderate and great, Lenin destroyed them but he was no radical.

Mao was kind of delusional and very power hungry. Stalin less so, he was bad but no where near as bad as people claim him to be.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The soviet councils set up after the revolution were moderate and great, Lenin destroyed them but he was no radical.

Mao was kind of delusional and very power hungry. Stalin less so, he was bad but no where near as bad as people claim him to be.
Can you name some marxist government that didnt end up with a power grab?
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,410 posts, read 1,669,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Can you name some marxist government that didnt end up with a power grab?
Can you name a 3rd world capitalist government that didn't? What's the difference between a power grab by autocrats and by plutocrats?
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Arcadia, CA
131 posts, read 51,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
One nickname for the Chinese political/economic system is "Market Leninism" - they'll use market economics but still tightly control the political system.
This might be the only workable compromise for Chinese communist party. Western economic system is simply unacceptable to them.
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:42 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,639,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Can you name a 3rd world capitalist government that didn't? What's the difference between a power grab by autocrats and by plutocrats?
Why only third world and yes I can, in fact most are not, Costa Rica is a good modern example of how a country should be run. Humans always grab power when they can. Communist systems set up to make that reality even easier as it centralises wealth and influence. A capitalist system in and of itself keeps government at bay. Nearly every modern capitalist country is a democracy or republic. Very few people believe in pure capitalism and I wouldnt defend that, but just because capitalism has problems doesnt mean Im going to go the opposite direction to some sort of communism.

Its hard to believe in the modern era people still defend communism.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,410 posts, read 1,669,820 times
Reputation: 8023
The reason socialist regimes have that track record is that they have always had to wrest power from entrenched plutocrats with the use of force.

Most modern capitalist countries are also in poverty and heavily indebted to smiling capitalists.

Last edited by cebuan; 10-10-2018 at 04:29 AM..
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